AA will increase to 40/month starting July

[aa73]

:beer:

 

[macdu]

Gee, only another 18 months until recall

 

[two leg commute]

Up from 30 right? Thought the rumor was 60 per month? Hopefully they keep it going..........

 

[BIGGOAT]

Now that is good news!


Goat

 

[Flybet3]

Are all the furloughs just TWA or are there some low seniority AA guys?

 

[AAflyer]

Both AA and TWA pilots. It will be interesting to see if they take 40 month and put another 10 (MLOA) on the list. We are doing that currently 30 a month plus 10 a month Mil Leave back on the seniority list. If so the REAL number would be 50 a month.

At a recall rate of 1 to 4 and 1 to 6 ( those accepting recall). I think it will be a lot quicker than 18 months.

They also are recalling 200 FAs, TWA and AA FAs.

Regards,

AAflyer

 

[Flybet3]

Both AA and TWA pilots. It will be interesting to see if they take 40 month and put another 10 (MLOA) on the list. We are doing that currently 30 a month plus 10 a month Mil Leave back on the seniority list. If so the REAL number would be 50 a month.

At a recall rate of 1 to 4 and 1 to 6 ( those accepting recall). I think it will be a lot quicker than 18 months.

They also are recalling 200 FAs, TWA and AA FAs.

Regards,

AAflyer

Good to hear, I wonder how many are actually going to take the recall.

 

[Draginass]

Both AA and TWA pilots. It will be interesting to see if they take 40 month and put another 10 (MLOA) on the list. We are doing that currently 30 a month plus 10 a month Mil Leave back on the seniority list. If so the REAL number would be 50 a month.

At a recall rate of 1 to 4 and 1 to 6 ( those accepting recall). I think it will be a lot quicker than 18 months.

They also are recalling 200 FAs, TWA and AA FAs.

Regards,

AAflyer

I don't think the rate is anywhere near 1 to 6, at least not after the furlough-in-stead guys. More like calling 3 to get 1, isn't it? For June they had to call 81 to get 30. That's a 37% return rate. I hope there are more deferrals, but I think 3 to get 1 is going to be about as high a deferral rate as you're going to see.

 

[737 Pylt]

Great news guys. Its nice for a change to hear about recalls rather than furloughs!

737

 

[AAflyer]

I don't think the rate is anywhere near 1 to 6, at least not after the furlough-in-stead guys. More like calling 3 to get 1, isn't it? For June they had to call 81 to get 30. That's a 37% return rate. I hope there are more deferrals, but I think 3 to get 1 is going to be about as high a deferral rate as you're going to see.

You are correct, my apology. I copied the numbers from our APA sight incorrectly. My apology. Thanks for the correction.

AAflyer

 

[stlflyguy]

And the talk is that they're calling 200 flight attendants, not necessarily staffing for 200 more flight attendants. The acceptance rate has been roughly figured in, unlike pilot recalls.

stlflyguy

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

recall projection

RECALL UPDATE: Membership/Furlough Committee Chairman Captain// reports that pilot recalls will increase from 30 each month to 40 beginning with the July 3 class. Each recall class includes pilots returning to military leave and medical disability status, resulting in more pilots actually recalled than the class size itself. Thus far 206 pilots have deferred recall. For additional recall stats, please refer to online “Furlough Information” from the committee, which is accessible via the “National Committees” tab at the top of the members’ home page.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Hey Jeff

Are going to quit your cushy job at Allegiant? I can't imagine you giving up sleeping at home every night, easy turns, 18-20 days off a month, huge check, etc, etc, etc. to go back to AA and be just an ex-TWA guy!!!! That's a hard decision...

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I'm just passing on information.....

Hey Jeff

Are going to quit your cushy job at Allegiant? I can't imagine you giving up sleeping at home every night, easy turns, 18-20 days off a month, huge check, etc, etc, etc. to go back to AA and be just an ex-TWA guy!!!! That's a hard decision...

........and living the dream!!!

 

[Angus Khan]

So, an ex TWAer of recall #approximately 1900 can be expected to be recalled in 2 to 3 years after already having spent five years on furlough. Then there's age 65 implement, terrorism, economic questions, returning to an industry stil in turmoil. I'm not holding my breath. So after all this time and turmoil of furlough and hardship on our families will the friendly folks at AA and APA actually consider us to have paid our dues to be at the mighty AA? Yeah, I guess I'm still just a bit angry. Age 40 and still paying my dues before I get that dream job with a major.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

So after all this time and turmoil of furlough and hardship on our families will the friendly folks at AA and APA actually consider us to have paid our dues to be at the mighty AA?

Sorry to say but after listening to many AA pilots on the jumpseat I don't think for a minute they will ever accept a TWA guy as their own. The AA attitude just does not provide any grace regardless of what dues you've paid.

AA's sky nazi nickname doesn't stick for nothing. They cannot help themselves as they are all imbred.

 

[Kharma Police]

Sorry to say but after listening to many AA pilots on the jumpseat I don't think for a minute they will ever accept a TWA guy as their own. The AA attitude just does not provide any grace regardless of what dues you've paid.

AA's sky nazi nickname doesn't stick for nothing. They cannot help themselves as they are all imbred.

You mean "inbred" or are you referring to some other insult directed at the AA pilots? I'm curious how many TWA blue bloods will return back to AA once they get the call?

 

[waveflyer]

I hear you angus-- i'm a LOT older than i ever thought i'd be w/o my end job. Which is an argument for two things:
1- First year pay should go away! At every airline! The job should pay what it's worth.

2- everyone should be working to make regional jobs better, more survivable positions. You never know when the world will go upside down and you find yourself at one.

What we have experienced over the last 6 years is what happens when we leave any cross section of pilots out in the cold- whether that's regionals or furloughs. When people are struggling to eat and progress as an adult financially-- ALL airlines lose leverage in their negotiations.

In any case though-- it's great news. And it's good to have options. If you don't want to go back-- you don't have to-- Stay where you are or keep applying at all the other majors out there-- It seems like it won't be long before everyone will be hiring-- and no matter where you end up-- that's good for everyone.

 

[Angus Khan]

Well said waveflyer. The thousands of pilots that lose their jobs due to management failures, union corruption, economic downturns, and global catastrophes face having to completely start over at slave wages...no matter what the pilot's experience or background. No other industry is like this and I believe we pilots are partly to blame for continuing to allow this to happen. Why don't the APA, ALPA, SWAPA et al allow for higher starting wages and a national seniority number? Why, I think because they all have a "I got mine now pull up the ladder" attitude. This is one reason I'm currently enjoying flying for a corporation and not my former airline (AATWA). We hire people based on their qualifications and pay them respectively. I've negotiated my own salary and benefits to some degree and my promotion through the ranks has come through hard work, being reliable, and a being a pilot my employers feel confident with to fly everyone from their CEO's to their wife and kids. I do still miss the airline lifestyle. Based on my previous comments you can see I'd still like to go back...but it will likely be with some trepidation.

 

[OCP]

How many are currently still out there?

 

[Angus Khan]

Well over 2,300 at least.

 

[pipe]

AA will increase to 40/month starting July:beer:[/quote]

Yay. The opportunity of a lifetime (if you're the masochistic self-mutilating type).

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

So, an ex TWAer of recall #approximately 1900 can be expected to be recalled in 2 to 3 years after already having spent five years on furlough. Then there's age 65 implement, terrorism, economic questions, returning to an industry stil in turmoil. I'm not holding my breath. So after all this time and turmoil of furlough and hardship on our families will the friendly folks at AA and APA actually consider us to have paid our dues to be at the mighty AA? Yeah, I guess I'm still just a bit angry. Age 40 and still paying my dues before I get that dream job with a major.

You wanna get mad at someone for your situation....look no further than the closest mirror. You took a job at TWA sometime in 1999 and sat out one of the biggest hiring booms we have seen and joined an airline that had already declared CH 11 twice.What were you thinking?

 

[TWA Dude]

What were you thinking?

It's nice to like where you work, something very few at AA will ever experience.

 

[pkober]

You wanna get mad at someone for your situation....look no further than the closest mirror. You took a job at TWA sometime in 1999 and sat out one of the biggest hiring booms we have seen and joined an airline that had already declared CH 11 twice.What were you thinking?

So basically, anyone hired at any of the major, except AA, should expect to have no real future. CAL, DAL, UA, NWA all have been in CH11. If you accept a job there are you insane?

What happened to the TWA guys can happen to every airline pilot. AA guys aren't somehow protected from that ever happening to them. If AA is ever bought by another carrier there will be no mercy on them. Hopefully it won't happen, but it certainly can.

 

[waveflyer]

Angus-- I hear you! Well said yourself. I think part of the reason pilots get so unhappy and bitchy is b/c up until we got hired by an airline, we were in complete control of our destiny- If I failed, it was on me, if I succeeded it was my satisfaction.- Now we are along for the ride and no matter how good I am- I am completely married to my company-- while our bosses are not so attached at all. There is nothing that will drain you quite so well as a feeling that you are not in control of your life.

We need seniority-- but we need a national list that allows us to move company to company without such a huge penalty. I don't really care who's logo is on my tail-- i care that i live where i want to and i have real security: ie: is there a market for what i do? yes- than why are we taking so many hits?. How many pilot's lives are going to be turned upside down b/c protecting our seniority at an individual company takes away all our leverage. We get a national list-- and it doesn't fall on us to save the company-- let em go under like all our passengers want- and we'll fly for whoever fills the void... People are still going to fly. With all the intelligence we have in aviation- i'm smart- but there are brilliant pilots-- we can't figure out a better system than this? Don't want 22 year olds on it? Fine- have a regional list and a major list... I never minded paying my dues like the military guys. You think you have security now-- how can any airline pilot say that? (PanAm, TWA, Eastern, Braniff., pensions... ad nauseum) Think about what seniority on a national list would mean to your job security?

I'm sure i'm not thinking of everything-- but i know what isn't working.

 

[BigMotorToter]

Angus-- I hear you! Well said yourself. I think part of the reason pilots get so unhappy and bitchy is b/c up until we got hired by an airline, we were in complete control of our destiny- If I failed, it was on me, if I succeeded it was my satisfaction.- Now we are along for the ride and no matter how good I am- I am completely married to my company-- while our bosses are not so attached at all. There is nothing that will drain you quite so well as a feeling that you are not in control of your life.

We need seniority-- but we need a national list that allows us to move company to company without such a huge penalty. I don't really care who's logo is on my tail-- i care that i live where i want to and i have real security: ie: is there a market for what i do? yes- than why are we taking so many hits?. How many pilot's lives are going to be turned upside down b/c protecting our seniority at an individual company takes away all our leverage. We get a national list-- and it doesn't fall on us to save the company-- let em go under like all our passengers want- and we'll fly for whoever fills the void... People are still going to fly. With all the intelligence we have in aviation- i'm smart- but there are brilliant pilots-- we can't figure out a better system than this? Don't want 22 year olds on it? Fine- have a regional list and a major list... I never minded paying my dues like the military guys. You think you have security now-- how can any airline pilot say that? (PanAm, TWA, Eastern, Braniff., pensions... ad nauseum) Think about what seniority on a national list would mean to your job security?

I'm sure i'm not thinking of everything-- but i know what isn't working.

Very well said. I agree 100%.

 

[aa73]

You wanna get mad at someone for your situation....look no further than the closest mirror. You took a job at TWA sometime in 1999 and sat out one of the biggest hiring booms we have seen and joined an airline that had already declared CH 11 twice.What were you thinking?

Slapnutz, you are a moron.

The next time you want to criticize someone for taking a job at an airline without knowing what's going to happen, take a look in your own mirror. YOU could very well end up furloughed while your airline sits it out in BK. Who's gonna be laughing then? Oh, no, that could never happen to you.

TWAers, disregard these comments, they don't represent how a lot of us think.

P.s. I tried like hell to get hired by TWA back in '98-99.... because it seemed like a great group of guys to work with. Stepping stone, maybe... but I was a commuter dawg who was trying to move on, and I would've gladly landed there. NOBODY knows what's in the cards in this business.

73

73

 

[Snapperhead]

The recall acceptance rate is about 36%, if AA continues to recall to the end of the list...AA should hire of the street beginning mid to late 2009. Those around the 2300 mark should be back around Nov 2008 (year and a half).

 

[wrgcareer]

Angus-- I hear you! Well said yourself. I think part of the reason pilots get so unhappy and bitchy is b/c up until we got hired by an airline, we were in complete control of our destiny- If I failed, it was on me, if I succeeded it was my satisfaction.- Now we are along for the ride and no matter how good I am- I am completely married to my company-- while our bosses are not so attached at all. There is nothing that will drain you quite so well as a feeling that you are not in control of your life.

We need seniority-- but we need a national list that allows us to move company to company without such a huge penalty. I don't really care who's logo is on my tail-- i care that i live where i want to and i have real security: ie: is there a market for what i do? yes- than why are we taking so many hits?. How many pilot's lives are going to be turned upside down b/c protecting our seniority at an individual company takes away all our leverage. We get a national list-- and it doesn't fall on us to save the company-- let em go under like all our passengers want- and we'll fly for whoever fills the void... People are still going to fly. With all the intelligence we have in aviation- i'm smart- but there are brilliant pilots-- we can't figure out a better system than this? Don't want 22 year olds on it? Fine- have a regional list and a major list... I never minded paying my dues like the military guys. You think you have security now-- how can any airline pilot say that? (PanAm, TWA, Eastern, Braniff., pensions... ad nauseum) Think about what seniority on a national list would mean to your job security?

I'm sure i'm not thinking of everything-- but i know what isn't working.

I also agree. With all the execs out there looking for their next deal, there is no way to feel that you have job security. Times have changed. Maybe it's time to take another look at the seniority system.