AA to recall

[AvroGuy]

Now isn't something like 800-900 pilots going on a 7 day a week golf vacation for the next 20 or so years, retirement, going to start happening next year? If this is true, AA will go throught the recalls in no time and then through the remaining FT in short order. That is assuming they don't start shrinking the airline by number of pilots and planes.

 

[beagle pilot]

Now isn't something like 800-900 pilots going on a 7 day a week golf vacation for the next 20 or so years, retirement, going to start happening next year? If this is true, AA will go throught the recalls in no time and then through the remaining FT in short order. That is assuming they don't start shrinking the airline by number of pilots and planes.

Possible, but not probable IMHO because I think they will shrink.

In short, my guesstimate is the last of the 527 FTs won't transfer to AA for 2-3 years. Then there will be a gap of a couple years before hiring to replace attrition takes place. This will be due to several factors:
1. Completion of the AA-APA contract negotiations.
2. The results of those negotiations; specifically scope relief, parking all their MD-80s while only replacing half of them and pilot work rule changes raising the cap on flight hours.

Due to these factors, I don't see the preferential/new hire classes beginning for at least five years and it will take another five years before the last of the 824 preferential class seats are used.

Of course, a strike/bankruptcy, a gas crisis, avian flu epidemic or any other calamity could change this time line.

 

[igneousy2]

Recall? Only furloughed pilots get to have the recall term applied to them. The AE pilots that will be coming to AA will be called something totally different and it won't be "recalled pilot".

Better study REAL hard guys! IF you make it through training many of the AA pilots you are jumping ahead of can't wait to fly with you!

It's amazing how attitudes change once the shoes on the other foot.

 

[beagle pilot]

It's amazing how attitudes change once the shoes on the other foot.

Agreed, but it also amazes me how misinformed many of them continue to be.

Sorry BMT, but no Eagle pilots are jumping ahead of anybody. It's called "Seniority Order" as anyone who read the arbitration should know.

You are correct however since it isn't a recall. It's a transfer as noted in the same document.

 

[NAA Pilot]

Do these AE guys really want to go to AA??
When they go they WILL be based in STL with a few lucky ones getting LGA or MIA. They will be locked in that base for a year and you can forget about getting DFW or ORD for years and years. There are hundreds of guys on property that have reinstatement rights that trump seniority in bidding back to these bases. In STL, due to supp CC. they will bid behind the TWA guys no matter what the AE guys AA seniority is so, if based in STL the AE guy will be on reserve until able to bid out (probably 2 years or more) and forget DFW and ORD (my guess is it will take 5-8 years). AA reserve makes AE reserve look like a vacation. ie. movable days off and NO flexibility. You HAVE to be in STL every day on reserve and the movable days off WILL be moved to make life horrible.
It takes a 7700 seniority to bid the most junior (really crappy) line on the 80 in LGA.
It takes a 7900 seniority to bid the most junior (really, really crappy) line on the 737 in MIA.
Oh and those thinking the minimum distribution for the A plan is $1500/month..... WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!! It's $1500/year! That is what most of these guys will get as it takes MANY MANY MANY years participating in the A plan to see any real $$$.
And it looks like TTC will be around 18 years.
I think I would rather stay at AE making $100/hr with a 80 hour senior captain line than $92 an hour with a 64 hour guarantee commuting to reserve in STL. You wont see $100/hr until year 8. But hey.... you'll have the A-plans $1500 per YEAR!!!! WOW!

 

[beagle pilot]

Do these AE guys really want to go to AA??

You are correct, why would anyone be that stupid? Who wants to be called an "Arrogant Asshat" or "Sky Nazi"? Who wants to be ridiculed for labeling themselves "The World's Greatest Pilots"? Really, you are right NAA Pilot. It's amazing.

I won't be going, but there are many at Eagle lined up to take my place. Most at too young to really worry about retirement and all that. They just like the idea of being in big shiny jet and telling all their friends they're AA pilots. You know, just like the ones there now.

You're sure to appreciate these jokes, NAA Pilot:

How do you tell there is an AA pilot at your party? Don't worry, he'll tell you!

What happens when an AA pilot takes Viagra? He grows taller.

What does an AA pilot use for birth control? His personality.

How many AA pilots does it take to change a light bulb? Just one. He holds it up and the world revolves around him.

Why do AA pilots like women with big boobs and tight snatches? Because they all have big mouths and little dicks.

 

[washout]

deleted

 

[ultrarunner]

deleted

Here's Washout's response ;-)

Not funny. Not nice. Not cool.

After reading crap like that, it amazes me that FI asks me "Are you sure you want to log off?"

Yeah, I'm sure.

But you must admit, NAA Pilot gives some pretty compelling reasons for a current AE pilot to stay put......

 

[beagle pilot]

But you must admit, NAA Pilot gives some pretty compelling reasons for a current AE pilot to stay put......

Using the same logic, it amazes me many AA pilots don't quit and go to work for McDonalds. I wonder how AA will expect to get new hires in a few years with such a sucky airline contract.

 

[igneousy2]

Has it ever been decided if the flow through guys have a choice? I haven't been up to date recently, but according to the original Flow-Through LOA, once you made your "Eagle Rights" or "Flow Through" choice...that was it you were either staying or going. Unfortunately for most of these guys it ended up being a 10 year + seat lock.

 

[jetjam619]

Eagle Rights can flow as well.......

 

[beagle pilot]

Correct. One thing left to play out is how the APA and AMR are going to handle time-to-captain. The APA wants to make it 20 years for obvious reasons; they hate Eagle. What the company does remains to be seen.

While the current TTC may indeed be up to 20 years, the forecast is that it will drop dramatically once the retirements start to kick in post-age 65. If the company chooses to readdress TTC, I smell another lawsuit and/or grievance regarding age discrimination. It should be fun to watch over the next few months.

 

[DGdaPilot]

TTC will be 10 years.

 

[Beefy Botham]

You are correct, why would anyone be that stupid? Who wants to be called an "Arrogant Asshat" or "Sky Nazi"? Who wants to be ridiculed for labeling themselves "The World's Greatest Pilots"? Really, you are right NAA Pilot. It's amazing.

I won't be going, but there are many at Eagle lined up to take my place. Most at too young to really worry about retirement and all that. They just like the idea of being in big shiny jet and telling all their friends they're AA pilots. You know, just like the ones there now.

You're sure to appreciate these jokes, NAA Pilot:

You've got it all figured out Jack. Yet for a Marine like yourself, how come you never made it to the Majors?

 

[AAflyer]

Using the same logic, it amazes me many AA pilots don't quit and go to work for McDonalds. I wonder how AA will expect to get new hires in a few years with such a sucky airline contract.

Man o man, and you got the nerve to lecture me on professionalism. You truly are in the 2% aren't you. 54 years of age, and that miserable in life, that judging of others. You are truly a sad sad person........

I don't have the dislike I had for you anymore, I feel sorry for you..

AA

 

[beagle pilot]

You've got it all figured out Jack. Yet for a Marine like yourself, how come you never made it to the Majors?

Like anything, timing! I'm currently happy where I am so I won't be taking the flow. Unlike some on this forum, I don't have to "make it to the Majors" to prove myself. Like President Reagan said:
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”

So why are you so interested? What's your Beef?

 

[beagle pilot]

Man o man, and you got the nerve to lecture me on professionalism.

Your patronizing, typically-APAish tirade aside, which post was me lecturing you on professionalism?....or are you just using that as an excuse to vent? No problem. Feel free to vent your frustrations. I can take it.

 

[Beefy Botham]

Like anything, timing! I'm currently happy where I am so I won't be taking the flow. Unlike some on this forum, I don't have to "make it to the Majors" to prove myself. Like President Reagan said:
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”

So why are you so interested? What's your Beef?

No beef here Jack. Oh yeah, the "timing" reason. Gotcha!

 

[beagle pilot]

No beef here Jack. Oh yeah, the "timing" reason. Gotcha!

Gotcha! Do you feel like a success, more manly and all, now that you are on a 747? Good for you. I'm truly happy for you.

 

[AAflyer]

This message is hidden because beagle pilot is on your ignore list.


My Saturday just got better!!!!

AA

 

[Beefy Botham]

Gotcha! Do you feel like a success, more manly and all, now that you are on a 747? Good for you. I'm truly happy for you.

Thanks, I've never been happier.

 

[beagle pilot]

Grrrrrrreat! I'm proud of you.

 

[beagle pilot]

This message is hidden because beagle pilot is on your ignore list.

My Saturday just got better!!!!

AA

Do you talk to yourself often?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

TTC will be 10 years.

Try 15+ years. Anything lower is B.S. for anyone past the 3rd flow-up.


That bunch will be 3500 slots from upgrades. With the fleet remaining at a somewhat status quo, that's at least 15 years for the top 10 Flow-Ups. Productivity gives are inevitible. Productivity gains from a narrow body fleet of 737's will all hurt the TTC, more so if the B737-900 replaces the B757.

IMHO, 17 years TTC would be generous. I don't know if that number is set each year. that would be more realistic than the 10 years tossed around here.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Try 15+ years. Anything lower is B.S. for anyone past the 3rd flow-up.


That bunch will be 3500 slots from upgrades. With the fleet remaining at a somewhat status quo, that's at least 15 years for the top 10 Flow-Ups. Productivity gives are inevitible. Productivity gains from a narrow body fleet of 737's will all hurt the TTC, more so if the B737-900 replaces the B757.

IMHO, 17 years TTC would be generous. I don't know if that number is set each year. that would be more realistic than the 10 years tossed around here.

Doesn't matter what you think. Nicolau was queried and he stated two days ago that the last used calculation of 10 years will be applied to this grievance remedy. BTW, many of the 244 have 10 years bidding seniority.

 

[Flightdawg]

IMHO, 17 years TTC would be generous. I don't know if that number is set each year. that would be more realistic than the 10 years tossed around here.

Like other airlines AA has a large number of retirements coming up. This will create a large amount of list movement and upgrades in the very near future. TTC could drop dramatically in a few years.

AA Retirements
4/11/2010 - 12/31/2010 0
01/01/2011 - 12/31/2011 0
01/01/2012 - 12/31/2012 5
01/01/2013 - 12/31/2013 136
01/01/2014 - 12/31/2014 197
01/01/2015 - 12/31/2015 258
01/01/2016 - 12/31/2016 248
01/01/2017 - 12/31/2017 283
01/01/2018 - 12/31/2018 356
01/01/2019 - 12/31/2019 456
01/01/2020 - 12/31/2020 545
01/01/2021 - 12/31/2021 605
01/01/2022 - 12/31/2022 658
01/01/2023 - 12/31/2023 705
01/01/2024 - 12/31/2024 720
01/01/2025 - 12/31/2025 734
01/01/2026 - 12/31/2026 707
01/01/2027 - 12/31/2027 588
01/01/2028 - 12/31/2028 497
01/01/2029 - 12/31/2029 472
01/01/2030 - 12/31/2030 410
​

 

[aa73]

Beagle Pilot, just like on APC you sit here and use your standard anti APA line anytime someone gets the better of you, as if that's the only defense you have. Truthfully, all I've seen from you always centers on attacks on the APA, as if you have to prove to yourself that you are in your situation today because of APA. And you really go out of your way... kind of like someone in a crowd who talks really loud, then looks around to see if anyone is hearing them. Honestly, man, nobody cares. You are where you are, you are happy... let it be. So are many of us. Move on, man, move on... life is short.

 

[beagle pilot]

Honestly, man, nobody cares.

You care. So do your colleagues. Otherwise they wouldn't be continually bashing Eagle and blaming its pilots for your problems such as the APA did in its scope presentation to the NMB: http://www.mediafire.com/?dtm4nuymwmn

Need your opinion on something. Scenario: Pilot from airline A attacks pilot from airline B. Pilot from airline B counter-attacks then the Communication Chairman of airline A's pilot union accuses the pilot from airline B of being a trouble-maker. This same Communication's representative never, ever disagrees with his own pilots no matter how ludicrous their statements or the veracity of their position. What do you think of a person who acts like that? Should they be trusted as being honest and unbiased or should it be understood they are simply another propaganda instrument of their union; Good cop/bad cop sort of thing?

 

[Vne]

Of the 244 Flowups 60 are ineligible because of the TTC computation that Nicolidiot pulled out of his A$$ 10years.
As I read the award the decision to go or not must be made before May 24 and the "slots" can NOT be passed down.
After the 35 come over it will be a long wait before AA recalls and when they do there ARE over 800 senior to any AE flowup who can come before the 2/28 furloughs.

Any AE pilot that comes across will be on reserve for several years when CC and reinstatement rights are added to the bidding picture.

As all things associated with AMR it looks good on paper but the reality sucks.

 

[Wingman10]

I wonder what the over/under will be for the 244 that have to make the decision by 24 May?