AA to furlough 178 more

[jetjam619]

Personally I don't understand why we don't merge the two lists and be done with it. I never understand why we have one group furloughing while another is hiring. I guess someday we will have leadership in the APA and AMR that will look at how ridiculous such an scenario is.

Ace , for 2 reasons.......

1. Its better for AMR to have the 2 groups fighting against each other than being united.........which , BTW , is going quite successful....

2. AE pilots would never accept a complete staple to the bottom. There
would have to be some type of integration, such as the top half for it to be agreed upon.

I believe in 2002 APA and ALPA were in discussions to merge the lists back then.....but ALPA would not accept a full staple to the bottom, while allowing new hire pilots STRAIGHT into mainline.

So, there ya have it.

 

[Eagle757shark]

You know why? For 9 out of 10 age 60+ guys it has zero to do with money and everything to do with identity. Looking in a mirror without epaulets makes grandpa cry.

For all you pilots that have a problem with the retirement age being changed to 65, here is what you should do. I want each of you to contact an attorney and have him draw up a contract. In this contract I want your attorney to put down language that on your 60th birthday, you will voluntarily retire. I want you to sign this contract. Then I want you to take it to the airline you work for and turn it in to your chief pilot. If you are willing to sign a piece of paper now, stating you will volunteer to retire at age 60, then you can complain about age 65 and career expectations all you want. If you can't sign a contract to volunteer to retire at 60 no mattter what your age is today, then you have no right to complain about this change again.

If the lord continues to bless me with good health, I have several more decades left in this industry. I don't see why people have a beef with a person that meets medical standards wanting to continue his career. The retirement age in this country is 65 for full benefits in most professions. Please stop using career expectations as your argument. Your career expectations are tied to the performance of your company and its ability to compete and survive and that's it.

 

[labbats]

Fair enough analogy. However, it doesn't address my statement that many age 60+ fly because they want to, not because they need to financially. That is the reason for the anger and resentment from those of us who are affected by that decision.

 

[chignutsak]

Fair enough analogy. However, it doesn't address my statement that many age 60+ fly because they want to, not because they need to financially. That is the reason for the anger and resentment from those of us who are affected by that decision.

So what if they want to fly? That is their life and their choice. Go to Wal-mart and I bet you will find a bunch of old-timers who aren't there out of financial necessity, but just 'cuz. Who ever said life is fair and must always align to your "career expectations"?

 

[FlickerFade]

Much of the pain and consternation regarding the furloughs many of us experienced over these past 9 years is the result of AA and others' vicious and sometimes egotistic scope battle(s). ie: we mainline guys con't fly small jets..............

Were pilots at airlines like AA and UA able to negotiate the RJ's onto property, a good bit of this would not be going on............. money that has gone to SkyWest, Mesa, and Eagle would have represented jobs and better (than regional) pay.

Scope is important, but the head in the sand way our pilot unions approached the subject? It is still affecting many of us today........... especially at AA.

 

[labbats]

So what if they want to fly? That is their life and their choice. Go to Wal-mart and I bet you will find a bunch of old-timers who aren't there out of financial necessity, but just 'cuz. Who ever said life is fair and must always align to your "career expectations"?

How does that affect a Wal-Mart employee hired after them? It doesn't.

We all know that a pilot cares about seniority, salary and sex in that order. Let's keep that in focus. I can only speak for myself, but I feel shortchanged on the first two items whenever I meet someone over 60 flying that does it for fun. There's a big world out there, find some fun in it outside the cockpit.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

+1

Ace, there is absolutely no logic to an arbitrator ruling that a TWA pilot furloughed from AA should count as a new hire. Granted, they may have been hired in 1990 at a different airline but they were furloughed from AA as AA pilots. The AE flowthrus are NOT AA pilots and never set foot on the property. On top of that, they shouldn't even be flowing until AA conducts a NEW HIRE CLASS - NOT a furlough recall class.

So you are saying a TWA pilot who never flew at AA and is junior to the AA pilot assigned to fly Eagle should be moved to AA before the senior AA pilot at Eagle? Somehow I don't see the logic in that and the arbitrator didn't either. It is very sound that if there are new positions at AA they should go to the senior AA pilot first not the junior one and that's whether they come from TWA, AE, or from the next merger. To do so otherwise would be stripping the agreement of it's basic tenets.

 

[kwick]

For all you pilots that have a problem with the retirement age being changed to 65, here is what you should do. I want each of you to contact an attorney and have him draw up a contract. In this contract I want your attorney to put down language that on your 60th birthday, you will voluntarily retire. I want you to sign this contract. Then I want you to take it to the airline you work for and turn it in to your chief pilot. If you are willing to sign a piece of paper now, stating you will volunteer to retire at age 60, then you can complain about age 65 and career expectations all you want. If you can't sign a contract to volunteer to retire at 60 no mattter what your age is today, then you have no right to complain about this change again.

If the lord continues to bless me with good health, I have several more decades left in this industry. I don't see why people have a beef with a person that meets medical standards wanting to continue his career. The retirement age in this country is 65 for full benefits in most professions. Please stop using career expectations as your argument. Your career expectations are tied to the performance of your company and its ability to compete and survive and that's it.

The Intelligence and Common Sense of your post is a rarity on this board.

 

[Caveman]

I have a few questions for all of you venting about guys over 60 sticking around.

What if a pilot junior to you was upgraded ahead of you because he needed the money more than you did?

How about if they furloughed you instead of a more junior pilot because he needed the money more than you did?

What if they displaced you out of the domicile where you lived because a pilot junior to you couldn't afford to commute any more?

It's the same thing as you guys wanting to force retirement on somebody senior to you because you need the money. Either seniority matters or it doesn't. What's it gonna be?

 

[thor2j]

For all you pilots that have a problem with the retirement age being changed to 65, here is what you should do. I want each of you to contact an attorney and have him draw up a contract. In this contract I want your attorney to put down language that on your 60th birthday, you will voluntarily retire. I want you to sign this contract. Then I want you to take it to the airline you work for and turn it in to your chief pilot. If you are willing to sign a piece of paper now, stating you will volunteer to retire at age 60, then you can complain about age 65 and career expectations all you want. If you can't sign a contract to volunteer to retire at 60 no mattter what your age is today, then you have no right to complain about this change again.

If the lord continues to bless me with good health, I have several more decades left in this industry. I don't see why people have a beef with a person that meets medical standards wanting to continue his career. The retirement age in this country is 65 for full benefits in most professions. Please stop using career expectations as your argument. Your career expectations are tied to the performance of your company and its ability to compete and survive and that's it.

Congrats,
you have won dumbest post of 2010 and it is only January!!!!