AA to furlough 178 more

[Vastly Underemp]

The Co paves the way for AE flowthrus with minimum hassle by furloughing 200 AA pilots.

200 TWA pilots.....big difference in the eyes of AMR.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Your "senior folks" at AE can cry me a river.

Maybe they can provide an extensive list of flying that has been lost by AE and given to the AA pilots. The AE senior guys have been the benefactors of the clueless APA majority that gave AE the jets that gutted the AA system.

I don't harbor any illusions that the relationship between both groups has been harmonious, but let's be a little accurate as to who took it in the shorts and who merely had their feelings hurt with name calling.

Don't you realize that every contract APA shoots themselves in the foot by restricting the feed. If APA wasn't so shortsighted, AMR would be stronger today with a better feed system. The more passengers the feed brings AA, the more AA can grow. APA needs to work with ALPA and bring the two lists together. Get over this us and them stupid mentality and work on making this a better profession.

 

[jetjam619]

Your "senior folks" at AE can cry me a river.

Maybe they can provide an extensive list of flying that has been lost by AE and given to the AA pilots. The AE senior guys have been the benefactors of the clueless APA majority that gave AE the jets that gutted the AA system.

I don't harbor any illusions that the relationship between both groups has been harmonious, but let's be a little accurate as to who took it in the shorts and who merely had their feelings hurt with name calling.

Do you mean the AE jets that provided 400-600 AA furloughs with jet captain jobs for 4 years instead of hitting the streets???
YOU MEAN THOSE JETS???

As you said, "APA gave AE jets"

APA has ALWAYS been and continue to be there own worst enemy.

 

[aa73]

200 TWA pilots.....big difference in the eyes of AMR.

If the bottom 200 pilots would have been native AA, they still would have gotten furloughed. It is not about AA or TWA, it is about junior AA pilots being replaced with more senior AE flowthroughs due to the arbitration.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

If the bottom 200 pilots would have been native AA, they still would have gotten furloughed. It is not about AA or TWA, it is about junior AA pilots being replaced with more senior AE flowthroughs due to the arbitration.

So your saying it's about seniority order?

 

[aa73]

According to the arbitrator, it will be, if he rules in favor of AE ALPA.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Don't you realize that every contract APA shoots themselves in the foot by restricting the feed. If APA wasn't so shortsighted, AMR would be stronger today with a better feed system. The more passengers the feed brings AA, the more AA can grow. APA needs to work with ALPA and bring the two lists together. Get over this us and them stupid mentality and work on making this a better profession.

Put down the AMR crack pipe and educate yourself about what the intention of "feed" was for the original AE exception to the APA contract. Feed was intended to be passengers from smaller cities that couldn't justify a larger aircraft. The Saabs, Jetstreams, ATR's, SD360's were all self limiting and although they took over some city pairs, they had their limitations.

The jets were game changers that allowed longer segments that were historically mainline city pairs. Like anything new, the smart guys at APA figured out the threat hence the "all jets" stance in 1996. It wasn't the size, it was the capability of the aircraft, especially the 70 seaters which should have never gone to AE. The idiot majority at APA were too dense to realize this and dropped the ball with the 1997 contract. At that time, only Comair (a privately owned carrier) had about 40 CRJ's. The rest of the industry had a few BA146's and a couple of Fokkers. We could have set the mark but didn't. NWA folded on "all jets" not long afterwards and the rest is history.

"Feed" isn't every former mainline city pair at ORD that's now AE. "Feed" isn't places like PIT-DFW-ABI. What used to be a mainline AA crew with a newhire looking at $250K in today's dollars is now a 250 hour idiot kid that thinks $25K is a livable wage.

50 seats was once the line of discussion. Now it's 100-130, and clueless fools even show up on this board to describe this as "feed".

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Put down the AMR crack pipe and educate yourself about what the intention of "feed" was for the original AE exception to the APA contract. Feed was intended to be passengers from smaller cities that couldn't justify a larger aircraft. The Saabs, Jetstreams, ATR's, SD360's were all self limiting and although they took over some city pairs, they had their limitations.

FYI, Eagle's original scope was unlimited 70 seat or less of any equipment type and no weight restriction.

For years APA has used Eagle's scope restrictions as ways to gain contract improvements. That is where they have continued to shoot themselves in the foot. They limit the companies ability to compete and they continue to give out flying to Eagle and other feeders. While they gain something in their contract that they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't relax scope. This was a short sighted approach. APA is now worst off and AMR is severely restricted in it's ability to compete. The only remedy I can see is to bring Eagle into a common seniority list and give the company a relax scope using pilots on the master list. Limit the company to using pilots on the master list. Don't let non-owned feeders grow into the problem we have now. APA still has some leverage unless it is loss in bankruptcy court. They should use it while ALPA will work with them. The time is right. Give AMR the opportunity to oder the 90 seat RJ's to compete. Bring guys off furlough into the openings and build a stronger company. I know for a fact that Eagle ALPA has a plan that would bring both groups together and nobody loses seniority.

 

[Flybet3]

Are they off their freaking meds? Why put up with the BS to leave in 3 more years with a few bucks more.

Like I've said before, pilots can sometimes be no different than those greedy f***s we've known and worked for.... AIRLINE CEOs.

 

[FO 4 Life]

During the talks between AA and AE, I believe it was a staple to the bottom with DOH for furlough, and AA couldn't bid down. The hiring into mainline was indeed a sticking point.

As far as some senior AE pilots being burned by the APA, when there were 4 Eagles, some were once represented by the APA. I'm sure there is some truth to that.

 

[spacecadet1]

Don't shoot the messenger here, but expect massive downsizing in the next few months. Possible pre-packaged BK. The additional expected furloughs may be mitigated by a mass exodous of those getting close to 60 or those past 60. Word passed on to me by someone connected at the very highest levels in aircraft financing.

 

[rider850]

aa

Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[Wingman10]

Don't shoot the messenger here, but expect massive downsizing in the next few months. Possible pre-packaged BK. The additional expected furloughs may be mitigated by a mass exodous of those getting close to 60 or those past 60. Word passed on to me by someone connected at the very highest levels in aircraft financing.

Could you elaborate on this topic? What time frame?
What is meant by a PRE-packaged BK?

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Sounds more like a comment from somebody junior hoping to get a scare rumor going in hopes some senior guys retire early.

 

[shroomwell]

Or prudent business management, for once, by AMR executives.