AA to furlough 178 more

[AceOnTheRiver]

Eagle MEC signed the agreement, including the unlimited flowback provision, and when it didn't go their way they sued to have it overturned. You either honor your contracts or you don't. I hope they're enjoying their RJs cause they'll never see anything bigger.

Funny, I suggest you study a little more then you can join in on this discussion at an adult level. There never was an unlimited flowback provision.


Furlough Protection at AMR Eagle, Inc. for Pilots Furloughed from AA.
A. A pilot furloughed from AA may displace a CJ Captain at an AMR Eagle,
Inc. carrier provided that the number of CJ Captain positions available to
furloughed AA pilots will be limited to the total number of CJ Captain
positions at AMR Eagle, Inc. less the number of Eagle Rights CJ
Captains.
B. A furloughed AA pilot may displace
1. A CJ Captain, other than an Eagle Rights CJ Captain, who has not
been awarded a seniority number at AA, in reverse order of AMR
Eagle, Inc. seniority; and then
2. A CJ Captain who has accepted a position on the AA Pilots
Seniority List pursuant to Paragraph III.B. above, or a CJ Captain
who was previously furloughed from AA, in reverse order of AA
seniority.
C. If no CJ Captain position at AMR Eagle, Inc. is available for a furloughed
AA pilot, such pilot shall not have any further displacement rights at AMR
Eagle, Inc. and shall be furloughed as an AA pilot, with the exception that
a furloughed AA pilot who is displaced from CJ Captain status may elect
either of the following options:
1. Such pilot may use seniority accrued at AMR Eagle, Inc. to bid a
vacancy or displace at such carrier in accordance with the
applicable collective bargaining agreement provided that no AMR
Eagle, Inc. pilot on the current Eagle seniority list will be furloughed
as a result of this provision consistent with Paragraph IV.K. below;
or
2. Such pilot may relinquish his position at the AMR Eagle, Inc. carrier
and will receive furlough pay due under the Basic Agreement
between AA. and the Allied Pilots Association ("APA"). The rights
and obligations of a furloughed AA pilot who relinquishes a position
at AMR Eagle, Inc. will be the same as any other furloughed AA
pilot, except that such pilot shall have a right of recall for ten years
to any vacant CJ Captain position in the reverse order of
displacement specified in Paragraph IV.B. above.
3. When a CJ Captain who has been furloughed under Paragraph
IV.C.2. above is offered, by written notice from AMR Eagle, Inc., the
opportunity to return to duty as a CJ Captain and such pilot elects,
by written notice to AMR Eagle, Inc., not to return to duty, such pilot
forfeits the right of recall to AMR Eagle, Inc. Such pilot shall
maintain the seniority right of preference for recall to AA under the
terms of the Basic Agreement between AA and APA.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Eagle MEC signed the agreement, including the unlimited flowback provision, and when it didn't go their way they sued to have it overturned. You either honor your contracts or you don't. I hope they're enjoying their RJs cause they'll never see anything bigger.

On another note, I wouldn't jinx the AA pilots in having the AA FA's strike and AMR go chapter 11. I'm afraid you would be regretting that comment for many years when Eagle is flying the 100 seaters.

 

[Full of LUV]

Uh...yeah....

The flow through to AA never adversely affected AA pilots but 800 AA pilots flowing back to Eagle would cause Eagle FO's with years on the job to be furloughed so an AA new-hire could take a CA seat Eagle. Not to mention the 800 CA's that would have had their pay cut in half to make room for AA new hires, many of which had absolutely no airline PIC time. Do you think that is any where within the realm of reasonable? And even as it stands, far more AA pilots made out great in the flow back(about 400), as opposed to the Eagle pilots that actually flowed through(about 150).

What about the THOUSANDS of pilot jobs at AA that were moved to the Eagle operation with the parking of Folker and 727 jets..... Where is the recognition that those Eagle Captains and FO's only have their jobs on the backs of the bottom third of the AA list?

 

[chignutsak]

What about the THOUSANDS of pilot jobs at AA that were moved to the Eagle operation with the parking of Folker and 727 jets..... Where is the recognition that those Eagle Captains and FO's only have their jobs on the backs of the bottom third of the AA list?

Eagle, and any other regional for that matter, is flying pointy-nose jets over x number of seats because mainline pilots allowed it to happen. Obviously the specifics of what happened vary from airline to airline, but that is the bottom line. To blame the regional pilots for this decision is absurd. Management took what mainline unions granted them, and ran with it.

 

[FlickerFade]

Eagle, and any other regional for that matter, is flying pointy-nose jets over x number of seats because mainline pilots allowed it to happen. Obviously the specifics of what happened vary from airline to airline, but that is the bottom line. To blame the regional pilots for this decision is absurd. Management took what mainline unions granted them, and ran with it.

Exactly! AA pilots could have had all of that jet flying, but APA wouldn't sign off on it. They instead went with the hard core scope argument and lost a lot of AA pilot positions because of it. Just as the current APA leadership has overstepped, the guys in 1999 were too short-sighted. Those rj's would have paid less that the Fokkers and the MD-80's, but would have been more than what Eagle pays its pilots.

 

[rider850]

Sad,how we go from furloughing 178 more to infighting between mainline and the regional.
Anyone thinking that someone else is getting a wind-fall is highly mistaken.

 

[relief tube]

Well Eagle is hiring and getting 22 more CRJ-700s.... is this related?

Bad news either way.....there are plenty of CFI's frothing at the mouth to get hired at AE and fly that "big" plane..... not knowing or caring where the job came from.

god why are there still people trying to get into this industry?

 

[Full of LUV]

Exactly! AA pilots could have had all of that jet flying, but APA wouldn't sign off on it. They instead went with the hard core scope argument and lost a lot of AA pilot positions because of it. Just as the current APA leadership has overstepped, the guys in 1999 were too short-sighted. Those rj's would have paid less that the Fokkers and the MD-80's, but would have been more than what Eagle pays its pilots.

My point was answering the Eaglet who wanted us to cry him a river on how the poor Eagle Captains felt getting pushed back with the flowbacks from AA, and I was commenting that their jobs were there because of the AA in the first place.

Also, the main reason the "RJ" proliferates is because it could be operated at "regional" wages. If it paid close to mainline wages, they would start parking them.

 

[XTW]

Word on the street, new furlough mitigation letter passed at APA today and is at Centerpork to be signed. Details later. We'll see.


X

 

[FlickerFade]

My point was answering the Eaglet who wanted us to cry him a river on how the poor Eagle Captains felt getting pushed back with the flowbacks from AA, and I was commenting that their jobs were there because of the AA in the first place.

Also, the main reason the "RJ" proliferates is because it could be operated at "regional" wages. If it paid close to mainline wages, they would start parking them.

Not quite.

Add up the profit that the regional carriers take before they pay their pilots. Yes, they pay less than mainline equipment, but not as little as they do now at regionals. Carriers like AA and UA pay a premium to outsource the flying. That premium could have been kept in house. And the jobs could have been kept at AA, etc.

 

[pipejockey]

Sad,how we go from furloughing 178 more to infighting between mainline and the regional.
Anyone thinking that someone else is getting a wind-fall is highly mistaken.

You are 100% wrong!! There is a group that is getting a windfall, and will always get a windfall in this industry, even in bankruptcy, and in some cases, ESPECIALLY in bankruptcy. And those people are the scum sucking, sh*t eating, immoral, neanderthals in the upper management and executive offices. They never lose. Even when they run one company in the ground and rape and pillage their labor forces, they will always have another job waiting for them at some other corporation. They are like cow sh*t in a pasture!

 

[pipejockey]

My point was answering the Eaglet who wanted us to cry him a river on how the poor Eagle Captains felt getting pushed back with the flowbacks from AA, and I was commenting that their jobs were there because of the AA in the first place.

Also, the main reason the "RJ" proliferates is because it could be operated at "regional" wages. If it paid close to mainline wages, they would start parking them.

Excuse me? You certainly can't be referring to me are you? So, tell me how refusing to fly the RJ's when they showed up in the 90's and giving away scope like it were water is working out for all these mainline guys these days. You reap what you sow!

 

[rider850]

Aa

I have to agree with you there. AMR mngt. is obviously smarter than us.

 

[livin'thesim]

The over-60 thieves must be rejoicing at the pain they are causing.

 

[FlickerFade]

1. How can some people here work for a business and industry they loathe so much?

2. There are no guarantees and more power to guys working past 60. We will all have the same opportunity. How selfish is it to put yourself above someone else just because they're older? We're all equal, right?

 

[pipejockey]

1. How can some people here work for a business and industry they loathe so much?

2. There are no guarantees and more power to guys working past 60. We will all have the same opportunity. How selfish is it to put yourself above someone else just because they're older? We're all equal, right?

Maybe because these guys didn't have to sit in the right seat for 5 years longer or get stuck at the scumbag regionals for 5 years longer like people today have to. Now, we will have to work an extra 5 years to have the same amount of time in the left seat. Some of us wanted to retire at 60 but because of the stagnation this has caused some of us will have to work longer to compensate.

 

[eaglesview]

Maybe because these guys didn't have to sit in the right seat for 5 years longer or get stuck at the scumbag regionals for 5 years longer like people today have to. Now, we will have to work an extra 5 years to have the same amount of time in the left seat. Some of us wanted to retire at 60 but because of the stagnation this has caused some of us will have to work longer to compensate.

Grass is always greener.........At UAL most of the almost, or already 60 pilots were new hires back in the 78 79 time frame. They were rewarded with furloughs and then a decade sitting as engineers as the industry was stagnent. Isn't it a shame this forum was not available then, think of all the moaning and groaning we missed. Now they are the "greedy" ones because they won't retire when we think they should. Get over it. I really don't hold grudges against them. A lot of these people are ex Pan AM, Eastern, TWA who's careers were turned upside down right as they were getting ready to move up at there carriers. We need to all stop bitching and thinking I got it worse than the next guy. In every industry there will be those that timed it right and those that didn't. Those that chose (or got hired) at the right company and those that didn't. Do yourself a favor and get over it.

 

[densoo]

So, tell me how refusing to fly the RJ's when they showed up in the 90's and giving away scope like it were water is working out for all these mainline guys these days. You reap what you sow!

Shack!

 

[livin'thesim]

Or five extra years furloughed.

All they are is craven, greedy old men.

Like I say, at least they are proud thieves. I won't be wishing them a happy retirement when they walk off the property - I will be flipping them off.

They are barely better than a four letter word that rhymes with "grab".

 

[pipejockey]

Grass is always greener.........At UAL most of the almost, or already 60 pilots were new hires back in the 78 79 time frame. They were rewarded with furloughs and then a decade sitting as engineers as the industry was stagnent.

Oh, you mean like the folks who got hired back in 2000 and 2001? You're preaching to the choir. At least those folks back in the late 70's early 80's were paid a good wage sitting sideways. So they can cry me a river. These days the ability to earn a livable wage is dependent upon seniority movement which hasn't happened in nearly 10 years.