AA to furlough 178 more

[Mr.B]

I hope Paul Emmens is enjoying his "victory".

Who is this guy?

 

[GuppyWN]

Who is this guy?

He is the ****************************** bag at Southwest that took it upon himself to personally screw 100's of unborn pilots while allowing pilots that already had a full career to stick around for 5 more years.

or

He worked hard and spent days upon days storming Captial Hill as his organization, APAAD (Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination) campained to eliminate the unfair practice of retiring healthy pilots at Age 60.

Take your pick,
Gup

 

[xrated]

He worked hard and spent days upon days storming Captial Hill as his organization, APAAD (Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination) campained to eliminate the unfair practice of retiring healthy pilots at Age 60.

Is it still "unfair" that they have to retire at 65?

 

[rider850]

Maybe we need to start a group. "Air line pilots against furlough while managers collect bonuses."

 

[BigMotorToter]

PREVIOUSLY POSTED by BIGMOTORTOTOR:

21jan10/2355
******************american airlines aviators*******************
************************pilot furloughs************************
i have the unpleasant responsibility of announcing the furlough
of up to 175 pilots in the first half of 2010, with the first
furlough of 80 effective march 1. This furlough will go through
xxxxxx.xxxxxxx, sen #9545. Your chiefs are working to get in
touch with these pilots and personally notify them. The company
will continue working with the apa to develop possible furlough
mitigation solutions and is pleased that our conversations have
already produced positive results.
.
I bear this news with great sadness. We have all worked so hard
to ensure the success of our airline - none harder than the
pilots impacted by this announcement. My thoughts and prayers
are with these pilots, as well as those already on furlough.
These individuals are our friends and colleagues. They are a
part of what makes this pilot corps the finest in the industry,
and i look to the day when we will be announcing their recall.
.
Regards, mark hettermann
enter hi6p to print this message

Sorry. I copied it from another board and didn't read the details very well as I was so pissed off reading the headline.

 

[Hamburger]

AMR sucks!

Gummers suck.

Go play golf already!

 

[Hamburger]

AMR sucks!

Gummers suck.

178 More golf carts, fishing boats, Harleys, airplanes, RV's, cruise ship berths, vacation homes, etc. sitting idle while guys with families to feed hit the skids.

 

[ultrarunner]

Are they off their freaking meds? Why put up with the BS to leave in 3 more years with a few bucks more.

Because with the trend in the market it could be another half-million!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Don't you just love it when they pull out the pics of the boat, airplane, new hangar, while they tell you about their African safari.

 

[ultrarunner]

Will any of those folks back-wash to Eagle?

 

[stlflyguy]

Will any of those folks back-wash to Eagle?

No they won't be able to as that chapter has more or less closed....well, the Eagle guys will try to claim the TWA guys are new hires, but that's a different topic.

 

[Metro752]

All pilot groups should have an LOA in which those over 60 are furloughed first before any junior pilots. It is only fair, you know, career expectations and all. 30-40 years and they knew they would retire at 60.

 

[Mr.B]

I hope Paul Emmens is enjoying his "victory".

Add his name to the list of Lorenzo ilk

 

[AWACoff]

I've heard the reason AA is furloughing is because some Eagle pilots won a court case. This is allowing them to flow to AA and thus causing the furlough. True or false?

 

[labbats]

Are they off their freaking meds? Why put up with the BS to leave in 3 more years with a few bucks more.

You know why? For 9 out of 10 age 60+ guys it has zero to do with money and everything to do with identity. Looking in a mirror without epaulets makes grandpa cry.

 

[aa73]

I've heard the reason AA is furloughing is because some Eagle pilots won a court case. This is allowing them to flow to AA and thus causing the furlough. True or false?

It's an arbitrator's ruling (Nicolau) that states that TWA flowbacks are considered new hires along with AE flow-throughs... and as such, the more senior AE flowthroughs (about 400 and change)would come to AA in the first recall class BEFORE any TWA furloughee - Never mind the fact that the TWA pilot was at AA and the AE pilot wasn't!

Not sure if this is the main reason for the furlough but wouldn't be surprised. The Co paves the way for AE flowthrus with minimum hassle by furloughing 200 AA pilots.

 

[Metro752]

Furlough the over age 60 crowd.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

You know why? For 9 out of 10 age 60+ guys it has zero to do with money and everything to do with identity. Looking in a mirror without epaulets makes grandpa cry.

Same reason that age 60+ guys at fractionals with full military or other retirement payouts in progress won't hang it up. GO the Fuc home already!

 

[jetjam619]

Well Eagle is hiring and getting 22 more CRJ-700s.... is this related?

Bad news either way.....there are plenty of CFI's frothing at the mouth to get hired at AE and fly that "big" plane..... not knowing or caring where the job came from.

Dont know if this is related but just to set the record straight.

-Yes , we are getting 22 CRJ's which were agreed to years ago as an option.

-Flow thrus??? How many will go ,we dont know. Arbtrtr and the unions to meet next month on a remedy.

-AE is retiring a bunch of 135's and are being ferried to AZ as we speak.

-We are hiring , 18 a month till further notice.

-Chititaqua moving into ORD in a few months taking AE flying......

-AA furloughs CANNOT flowback to AE as the agreement has expired.


We dont like the furlough news either. In the end, it hurts everyone.
I know a lot of AA crews are upset but I do reccomend that everyone maintain a cool head if you have AE crews commuting on your fights. AE crews can do the same thing to AA crews. The reason I say this its because it has happened before and as I said , it ends up hurting everyone.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

I've heard the reason AA is furloughing is because some Eagle pilots won a court case. This is allowing them to flow to AA and thus causing the furlough. True or false?

False. The furlough is because the over 60 guys haven't been retiring like the company thought they would. The flow through issue isn't settled yet and probably won't be for some time.

 

[rider850]

Furloughs

I've heard the reason AA is furloughing is because some Eagle pilots won a court case. This is allowing them to flow to AA and thus causing the furlough. True or false?

-False

-When supp w. is complete there is a possibility of more furloughs

-When the JAL deal is complete there is a posibility of more furloughs

-I can really see where the over 60's come into play

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

It's an arbitrator's ruling (Nicolau) that states that TWA flowbacks are considered new hires along with AE flow-throughs... and as such, the more senior AE flowthroughs (about 400 and change)would come to AA in the first recall class BEFORE any TWA furloughee - Never mind the fact that the TWA pilot was at AA and the AE pilot wasn't!

Not sure if this is the main reason for the furlough but wouldn't be surprised. The Co paves the way for AE flowthrus with minimum hassle by furloughing 200 AA pilots.

I beg to differ about the ruling. I believe his logic is sound. One must remember that a flow through is nothing but an AA pilot on assignment at Eagle. The basic logic is that the company needs a certain amount of pilots to operate the airline and for a flow through to come to AA it would have to be for newly created positions. They didn't allow flow throughs to come to AA when they should have and now we have this current mess. While I hate to see my fellow pilots still awaiting recall, I still side with the former APA president who said,"Seniority rules in all situations." It was a bad precedent for APA to go against seniority and I only hope it doesn't hurt the pilot group in the future.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Personally I don't understand why we don't merge the two lists and be done with it. I never understand why we have one group furloughing while another is hiring. I guess someday we will have leadership in the APA and AMR that will look at how ridiculous such an scenario is.

 

[rider850]

Sound Logic? 1990 hires are New Hires? That is where the logic is flawed. I am wearing an AA uniform and get an AA paycheck and then furloughed 8 years later and I am a New Hire. Makes sense.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Sound Logic? 1990 hires are New Hires? That is where the logic is flawed. I am wearing an AA uniform and get an AA paycheck and then furloughed 8 years later and I am a New Hire. Makes sense.

Sound logic when looking at the deal signed between AA and AE when you worked at a different company. If they didn't use that logic then Letter could set aside whenever the company wanted. Not to open another wound, but if you were given DOH then this wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[aa73]

Sound Logic? 1990 hires are New Hires? That is where the logic is flawed. I am wearing an AA uniform and get an AA paycheck and then furloughed 8 years later and I am a New Hire. Makes sense.

+1

Ace, there is absolutely no logic to an arbitrator ruling that a TWA pilot furloughed from AA should count as a new hire. Granted, they may have been hired in 1990 at a different airline but they were furloughed from AA as AA pilots. The AE flowthrus are NOT AA pilots and never set foot on the property. On top of that, they shouldn't even be flowing until AA conducts a NEW HIRE CLASS - NOT a furlough recall class.

 

[AWACoff]

False. The furlough is because the over 60 guys haven't been retiring like the company thought they would. The flow through issue isn't settled yet and probably won't be for some time.

-False

-When supp w. is complete there is a possibility of more furloughs

-When the JAL deal is complete there is a posibility of more furloughs

-I can really see where the over 60's come into play

Thanks for the info guys. A TWA/AA furlough told me this and was quite upset. I guess he may only be prematurely upset...ouch.

 

[aa73]

Thanks for the info guys. A TWA/AA furlough told me this and was quite upset. I guess he may only be prematurely upset...ouch.

They don't know whether it's false or not, AWAC. They are just stating their opinions, as am I. While AMR officially says the furloughs are due to bad financials and the over 60 crowd, they always have an unsaid motive - and methinks one of those motives is to "make room" for the Eagle flowthrus without creating a messy scene. This is JMO, based on past bait and switches at this company.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Bingo!!!

It's an arbitrator's ruling (Nicolau) that states that TWA flowbacks are considered new hires along with AE flow-throughs... and as such, the more senior AE flowthroughs (about 400 and change)would come to AA in the first recall class BEFORE any TWA furloughee - Never mind the fact that the TWA pilot was at AA and the AE pilot wasn't!

Not sure if this is the main reason for the furlough but wouldn't be surprised. The Co paves the way for AE flowthrus with minimum hassle by furloughing 200 AA pilots.

...add this to the the above reasons for the furlough and you have the big picture. AMR furloughs TWA guys and when they recall, they recall the Eagle flow throughs. The DOH of the TWA guys will be from early 1996 to 1989 (LOS). AMR will be paying out a number of months of pay to these guys as per the contract. The maximum being 5 months for guys over 10 years of service.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

RJ's keep getting Bigger!

It's what happens when RJ's get Enzyte!

(but management tells the Mainline guys it's Psychological, They only LOOK bigger)

KBB