AA pilot arrested in England for suspicion of being drunk

[32LT10]

Go study two things, and then come back to me with your fact findings:

1. Asset acquisition vs. merger

2. ALPA's Fragmentation policy vs. merger policy

P.S. For extra credit, study this case review: The 1991 DAL-PanAm asset acquisition, and resultant seniority integration.

1. HA.
2. You guys did not abide by any ALPA policy. It was stuff job on the TWA pilots and I hope when they come back they have long memories.

 

[aa73]

1. HA.
2. You guys did not abide by any ALPA policy. It was stuff job on the TWA pilots and I hope when they come back they have long memories.

1. Nor were we required to abide by ALPA merger policy - because it wasn't a merger. However, we abided as closely as we could to fragmentation policy.

2. You don't know squat about the details. In an asset acquisition the acquiring carrier is not even required to offer jobs to the carrier being acquired.

The judge ruled that it wasn't a stuff job.... and I'll believe him WAY before a douche like yourself.

 

[Draginass]

And how much of TWA has survived the acquisition? The APA knew that Carty was going to do what AA always does . . buy and airline, get rid of the equipment and routes and stick AA employees with integrating newcomers so the furloughes can start later. I wish AA had never bought TWA and blown a billion dollars in the integration costs, just to shrink back to pre-asset acquisition size. Better for AA employees and according to TWA employees, TWA could have survived and thrived on their own. The APA didn't have a yes or no vote on the acquisition. They, however, had to clean up the mess.

 

[32LT10]

1. Nor were we required to abide by ALPA merger policy - because it wasn't a merger. However, we abided as closely as we could to fragmentation policy.

2. You don't know squat about the details. In an asset acquisition the acquiring carrier is not even required to offer jobs to the carrier being acquired.

The judge ruled that it wasn't a stuff job.... and I'll believe him WAY before a douche like yourself.

Hey AA73 since you are the one that brought up ALPA merger policy in your original response perhaps you should apologize. I know you did not abide nor were you required to abide by ALPA merger policy but you, AA73, brought it up, What a nut job! Douche? Well an AA pilot would be an expert at recognizing one. However in this case you are just using your rose coloured glasses and are wrong. Listen haave aanother drink and baack awaay from the computer. Just make sure you report for duty sober for a chaange.

In regards to the judge we know there has been no corruption in the high courts of this country. Keep telling your self the same lie and you can believe anything. OJ was innocent, Iraq had WMD and you guys did not screw the TWA pilots and for that matter the rest of the TWA employees.

Again, HOW MANY TWA PILOTS ARE AT AA NOW? HOW MANY TWA PILOTS WERE AT TWA AT TIME OF PURCHASE?

 

[Fox-Tree]

What did the AA employees do to try and mitigate the loss of TWA jobs? What did APA do to assure a fair and equitable integration. The numbers are way too skewed to be defended. The APA and it's pilots pillaged the TWA ranks. What is amazing is that the average AA'er has the ability to not see what they did. It is almost as if you guys use Dick Cheney's glasses for vision.

What truly amazing is this misguided attitude that AA owes you anything. They bought a failing, wheezing airline that should have been liquidated years ago. You LOST the airline lottery – period – dot. It isn’t fair. No one said it ever would be. Would you rather they just broke it up and sold it for parts? If so, here’s an idea. If you’re still there, just quit and pretend TWA went Chapter 7 and liquidated. No one has a gun to your head. It’s not AA employee’s job to “mitigate the loss of TWA jobs”. The numbers are skewed because they held all the cards and the best a small few of you could hope for was 767 Capt when you were still TWA. It’s not like we’re talking about merging two equal carriers. We’re not even talking merger. TWA was acquired. Too bad you weren’t both ALPA – at least there is some guidance for that type of integration.

You had just as much chance to get hired by any of the airlines that were making boocoo $$ and hiring during the 90’s – the same timeframe that TWA managed to languish in and out of BK while others prospered. You chose to cling to mama and hope things would turn around. You chose poorly. AA pilots shouldn’t have to take any hit at all because their company was successful enough to buy your failing dinosaur. You’re lucky you weren’t all stapled.

Again, HOW MANY TWA PILOTS ARE AT AA NOW? HOW MANY TWA PILOTS WERE AT TWA AT TIME OF PURCHASE?

The ones with enough seniority to avoid furlough - just like the AA guys. Like I said, it ain't the AA pilot's job to take it the shorts just because you guys got bought out.

 

[Dangerkitty]

HOW MANY TWA PILOTS ARE AT AA NOW? HOW MANY TWA PILOTS WERE AT TWA AT TIME OF PURCHASE?

How about asking yourself this? How many TWA pilots would be flying today if Leo Mullin and Gordon Bethune had their way and cherry picked TWA's assets? I know for a fact that you wouldn't have a job. Ask ex-Pan Am pilots where they fell when Delta bought their assets and routes. Those guys got nothing. I remember seeing pictures of guys in front of the bankruptcy courthouse petioning the judge to have AA buy your whole airline and not have anyone else like CAL and Delta pick it piece by piece like vultures. You also signed off on having NO seniority rights when you came to AA. Forget that little gem 32LT10?

I am sorry that you are so bitter as to your lot in life. But I as well as the other 11,500+ Naative AA pilots had nothing to do with AA buying TWA. We also had nothing to do with the integration.

Further up the thread someone suggested you take a hint from AA717Driver, XTW and a few others. While we may disagree with each other on some parts of the TWA buyout, we have learned to get along anyway and even enjoy each others company. I am sorry that you still can't get over the fact that your days were numbered at TWA and that you were furloughed. I was furloughed too yet 600 TWA pilots still remain and fly the line. Am I bitter about that? NO.

Instead of being bitter and having a "pity party" I have gotten on with my life and have actually landed a MUCH better flying job. I will not be coming back to AA unless my Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C fall through. I highly doubt that that is going to happen.

Its time to get on with your life dude. No one cares about your bitterness nor your problems. Thats life.

 

[aa73]

Hey AA73 since you are the one that brought up ALPA merger policy in your original response perhaps you should apologize. I know you did not abide nor were you required to abide by ALPA merger policy but you, AA73, brought it up, What a nut job! Douche? Well an AA pilot would be an expert at recognizing one. However in this case you are just using your rose coloured glasses and are wrong. Listen haave aanother drink and baack awaay from the computer. Just make sure you report for duty sober for a chaange.

In regards to the judge we know there has been no corruption in the high courts of this country. Keep telling your self the same lie and you can believe anything. OJ was innocent, Iraq had WMD and you guys did not screw the TWA pilots and for that matter the rest of the TWA employees.

Again, HOW MANY TWA PILOTS ARE AT AA NOW? HOW MANY TWA PILOTS WERE AT TWA AT TIME OF PURCHASE?

Hey Mr UAL-patented Butt Reamer, Reread my post you a$$ hat. I said we were not required to abide by ALPA merger policy because IT WAS NOT A MERGER. It was an asset acquisition. As such, the APA structured its integration along the lines of ALPA FRAGMENTATION policy WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN MERGER POLICY!!! Go check out the 1991 DAL-PanAm asset acquisition and you will see just about the same integration. And they were both ALPA!

The judge is corrupt, oh sure. I knew you were gonna revert to that lame a$$ defense. You wanna talk corrupt judges, tell me about the judge that let your AIRLINE WALLOW AROUND FOR THREE YEARS IN BK AND THEN RE-EMERGE! Gee, how much damage did that do to airlines like CAL and AA who actually had to pay their bills. Not to mention the undue damages to all the pilot groups that had to stoop to your level.

So get off your high horse and go fly your Euro Trash for $125/hour.... Hey! That's Jetblue's rate as well! So now you can both sing the Rhapsody IN BLUE together. In the mean time, we'll do you all a favor and not cave in the way your lame a$$ pilot group did. You're welcome.

 

[CSY Mon]

You LOST the airline lottery – period – dot. It isn’t fair. No one said it ever would be.

Hmm, well said and I agree:

A few years ago TWA was not the hugely succesful carrier that lost it all because of the AA conspiracy.

Guys quit TWA in desperation and gave up 5+ years of seniority to come and work for carriers like Tower Air back in the 90s. (Those guys flew F/O for me, I heard the crying stories, no future, no confidence in managment, no financing, etc)

Other guys had applications with most majors including AA, NWA. UAL, etc and slowly but surely some got hired.

TWA was nothing but a stepping-stone after the glory days of the 60s and the 70s when the party was over.

(Ask them Pan-Am guys about the good old days, the sudden de-regulation and the broken dreams: Heck, blame it on UAL, DAL and in TWA's case: AA and the APA..Blame somebody except yer career-choice, or lack off of a good crystal ball, whatever)

Just quit whining: AA did not put you out of business, TWA did.

 

[AAflyer]

How about asking yourself this? How many TWA pilots would be flying today if Leo Mullin and Gordon Bethune had their way and cherry picked TWA's assets? I know for a fact that you wouldn't have a job. Ask ex-Pan Am pilots where they fell when Delta bought their assets and routes. Those guys got nothing. I remember seeing pictures of guys in front of the bankruptcy courthouse petioning the judge to have AA buy your whole airline and not have anyone else like CAL and Delta pick it piece by piece like vultures. You also signed off on having NO seniority rights when you came to AA. Forget that little gem 32LT10?

I am sorry that you are so bitter as to your lot in life. But I as well as the other 11,500+ Naative AA pilots had nothing to do with AA buying TWA. We also had nothing to do with the integration.

Further up the thread someone suggested you take a hint from AA717Driver, XTW and a few others. While we may disagree with each other on some parts of the TWA buyout, we have learned to get along anyway and even enjoy each others company. I am sorry that you still can't get over the fact that your days were numbered at TWA and that you were furloughed. I was furloughed too yet 600 TWA pilots still remain and fly the line. Am I bitter about that? NO.

Instead of being bitter and having a "pity party" I have gotten on with my life and have actually landed a MUCH better flying job. I will not be coming back to AA unless my Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C fall through. I highly doubt that that is going to happen.

Its time to get on with your life dude. No one cares about your bitterness nor your problems. Thats life.

Dangerkitty,

This num-nut flies for UAL, that being said it is a little odd he has such a hang up on this issue. Check out his other posts, unless you fly for UAL you are nothing. He has a real hard on for the Jetblue guys, heck he was reading the riot act to a Fed-Ex guy on another thread. I had put him on my ignore list, however I got stupid and read what he posted, anyway he is back on. He seems to be a bitter old man that has nothing better to do than to cut down anyone who does not agree with him. God, can you image spending 8 hours in the cockkpit with that?
uke:

AA

 

[AAslag]

This animosity will never go away, and we will hear rumblings from both sides until the end of our lives.

I know a retired pilot that still complains about something that happened between Eastern and another carrier back in the early 60's. My Uncle is still bitter about the seniority integration he received as a New York Central steam-engine fireman when they merged with a mostly diesel line.

I can guarantee you that if the roles had been reversed we would have the same percentage of outraged primadonas demanding a staple job.

Just like the rank and file at American the TWA constituancy had no say in the matter. We were not allowed to vote on scope and our message boards were shut down. We were censored and left mostly in the dark. To paraphrase AA717, "we had the wrong people, in the wrong place, at the wrong time in history." And, it seems that ALPA simply wrote us off.

In retrospect, my seniority group (15+ years, with nearly 4 years as Captain) would most likely have been better off with a pre 911 liquidation. At least in that scenario we would not have been fighting for the scraps after the massive airline purges. Oh well, Life ain't fair!

Back on topic. We are our own worst enemy. This dude has already been convicted by his peers before he has even been charged. If he is innocent then this type of event is not without precedent. This happened to a TWA pilot in LIT. He was not locked up, but was detained for several hours. He was not inebriated.

Regards.

I'm up early to take my lawyer hunting