AA JFK crosswind emergency...

[Fins Up]

Other factors were involved. And just try and ask for another runway from JFK approach control. You'll get the "Not only NO, but Hell NO, and don't ask again."

Are you privvy to what these other factors were? If so, we'd all love to hear the whole story.

 

[WDE]

Sitting on Jetblue ramp over 1hour waiting on taxi clearance,saw the whole thihg.Quite entertaining,as well as the other go arounds

 

[luckytohaveajob]

If you don't like the runway/crosswind configuration, that's not an emergency in my book unless there are other factors involved.

Learn what the letters PIC mean before you become a captain.

ATC does not fly a plane. The captain does. And if in his judgement he needs a runway to keep his airplane safe it is not ATC's call to tell him otherwise.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

It sounds like the JFK tower was again letting a child run the tower.

Little kids often don't know what is going on but insist in getting their way.

"No you will do what I want Mr. AA pilot because it is my game and you can't play with my toys."

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Learn what the letters PIC mean before you become a captain.

ATC does not fly a plane. The captain does. And if in his judgement he needs a runway to keep his airplane safe it is not ATC's call to tell him otherwise.

I'm all for re-establishing PIC authority. It's been eroded quite a bit. That said, when would you use emergency authority?

Hypothetically, let's say AA had originally been assigned 31R, but it was closed due to a gear up landing. Now they can't land on 31R. Is this an emergency? If fuel is not an issue, then no - it's just a diversion.

 

[Fins Up]

I'm all for re-establishing PIC authority. It's been eroded quite a bit. That said, when would you use emergency authority?

Hypothetically, let's say AA had originally been assigned 31R, but it was closed due to a gear up landing. Now they can't land on 31R. Is this an emergency? If fuel is not an issue, then no - it's just a diversion.

I agree. All I'm saying is that from what I heard on the tape, it didn't sound like a true emergency. Nothing said about a passenger issue, fuel problem, system problem, or any other problem. The tape leads us to believe that this "emergency" was purely a crossiwind thing. Any amplifying info anyone has would be good to know for us armchair qb's.

 

[Fins Up]

Learn what the letters PIC mean before you become a captain.

ATC does not fly a plane. The captain does. And if in his judgement he needs a runway to keep his airplane safe it is not ATC's call to tell him otherwise.

No shortage of PIC time here. You're right - the captain gets what the captain needs. In this case however the apparent factors that brought about this so-called emergency seem kinda weak.

If you say you need a different runway for crosswinds with nothing said about fuel or any other problem, I see no reason why ATC has to screw up and entire sequence of landing planes because the captain in question needs a different runway. If you're at min/emergency fuel than say so. How hard is that? An emergency fuel declaration will get you on the ground as fast as anything else.

 

[slapstick]

My backseat driving:

We've all diverted due to weather. We've probably all also discussed diversions with ATC and they've worked out a solution to get us in without diverting. Doesn't seem to me a reason to declare an emergency unless other factors were involved. Do you think going rogue, shaking off clearances, and driving around the world's busiest airspace is wise if you're not on fire or running out of fuel? Seems like more of a clash of egos.

 

[aa73]

I agree. All I'm saying is that from what I heard on the tape, it didn't sound like a true emergency. Nothing said about a passenger issue, fuel problem, system problem, or any other problem. The tape leads us to believe that this "emergency" was purely a crossiwind thing. Any amplifying info anyone has would be good to know for us armchair qb's.

Fins... a little common sense goes a long way here.

Winds are out of limits. Crew asks for different runway. Controller says unable. Crew has the option of a) going to a different airport, if they have the fuel for it, or b) declare an emergency in order to exercise PIC authority to get a runway that is within wind limits. In this case, it appears they did not have the fuel to go to a different airport (EWR, the closest for a transcon 767 also has 22 which would have been out of limits, anything else is further.) So, they had to declare an emergency. Where, exactly, do you fail to see their shortcoming? I think they did exactly what they should have done. Don't let ATC intimidate you or run your cockpit. They work for US. And if you run off a runway that was out of wind limits, career-wise you are going to be neck-deep in a river of $hit and here comes a wave.

 

[Fins Up]

Fins... a little common sense goes a long way here.

Winds are out of limits. Crew asks for different runway. Controller says unable. Crew has the option of a) going to a different airport, if they have the fuel for it, or b) declare an emergency in order to exercise PIC authority to get a runway that is within wind limits. In this case, it appears they did not have the fuel to go to a different airport (EWR, the closest for a transcon 767 also has 22 which would have been out of limits, anything else is further.) So, they had to declare an emergency. Where, exactly, do you fail to see their shortcoming? I think they did exactly what they should have done. Don't let ATC intimidate you or run your cockpit. They work for US. And if you run off a runway that was out of wind limits, career-wise you are going to be neck-deep in a river of $hit and here comes a wave.

- The controller never said "unable". He told him to fly runway heading while he coordinated. Did you catch that there were other planes in the pattern?? Maybe he didn't want a captain who was suddenly doing his own thing in the terminal area running into another airplane.
- Whichever pilot was on the radio declared an emergency once then got pissy when the controller confirmed that. He did not declare it three times as he claimed.
- You say it appears they didn't have enough fuel.... How do you know? How would the controller have known? How would anyone have known since the subject of fuel never came up during this exchange. If it's a fuel problem, say so.

There's you're common sense. If you think they handled the so-called emergency in the best way possible then I disagree with you. Of course all we have is a short audio replay to go by.