AA JFK crosswind emergency...

[Caveman]

No airmanship awards, but I am crediting him with exercising his Captain's authority. He may or may not have overreacted, but everybody went home safely that day. I say again, good job Captain.

 

[LJ45]

How many other flights got low on fuel because of the delays caused by this? Just wondering.

 

[waveflyer]

To me, many just seem to have a hard time seeing somebody exercise emergency authority, and stepping up as a captain. Maybe time some took some personal reflection, and ask themselves if they are letting other people make the decisions ahead of the cockpit door. Some just seem unable to make the tough decisions without having a conference call with dispatch, chief pilots, and an ALPA rep. They got the job done, and done safely. They didn't let anybody else talk them into doing something they might have regretted later.

This is a very good point. Sure, if there's time- get any and all info/ideas you can- but there's really no getting around one important fact. The captain is responsible for that flight. Noone else.

Now we all work on our judgement everday to make sure we do NOT hesitate when we need to make decisions. Whether this is a good decision or one we can learn from are in the details we don't know- but we should all be capable of being that strong.

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but your signature is wrong -
an armed society is a deadly society everywhere except places that were extrememly polite and civilized to begin with. I can cite some ghettos here in the states if you'd like.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Has everyone at Kennedy forgotten the Avianca crash? That crew was eviscerated for NOT declaring an emergency.
http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/transcripts/cvr_av052.php

 

[Say Again Over]

I don't fault ATC, the controllers are just implementing the plan to operate the airport during this period of construction on 31L, the airlines and the airport authority agreed to this.

The AA crew does of crap job of communicating, and those you feel that they can just declare an emergency and then take over the airspace will be in for a surprise when this event is resolved, the pilots will take a fall, others may disagree.

 

[rajflyboy]

Crew was right on to declare an emergency if they needed runway 31R but they were very wrong in not complying with the runway heading the controller gave them. Unless they are low on gas or had some other issue in which they failed to tell ATC.

 

[ableone]

sounds fishy-I don't know the whole story, but from the audio alone I don't see why they couldn't go to EWR or BOS. Unless they were reallly at emergency fuel. Then again I don't have information on the weather at the time, fuel state, or maybe there was something else abnormal going on that created a problem. If it was a fuel problem they could have just said emergency fuel or something along those lines and maybe the controller wouldn't have been so ticked off.

Personally, I won't divert to an alternate airport because ATC does not want to turn the airport around. Though I suspect that fuel was becoming an issue it really does not matter.

Everything that flies, birds and helicopters included, was designed to take off and land into the wind. If it takes declaring an emergency to make this happen, so be it.

I believe most on the boards who are jumping on the American crew are the same guys who ask ATC permission three times to turn and avoid WX.

Though I don't remember declairing an emergency I have refused a fair number of clearances. Also stop asking for headings - tell ATC you are turning or give them a choice of heading but be clear about who gets to make the final call.

 

[SLUF4]

I just don't totally agree with you. You can't just declare an emergency because ATC is doing something you don't like, it will inconvenience you etc... I'm not saying let ATC be the commander of your flight. Like I said, I don't know the whole story. Just seemed like a little bit of an overreaction on the radio-that's all. And I have declared an emergency a few times. All of them were for good reasons and I didn't have to get into a shouting match on the radio with ATC. Maybe I was dealing with better controllers.

 

[waveflyer]

I believe most on the boards who are jumping on the American crew are the same guys who ask ATC permission three times to turn and avoid WX.

haha - well said-
I will play devil's advocate here though- you shouldn't declare an emergency for any old reason. Bottom line, if anyone feels too strong with just this tape and story- you might want to see if the whole story comes out first

 

[rajflyboy]

I just don't totally agree with you. You can't just declare an emergency because ATC is doing something you don't like, it will inconvenience you etc... I'm not saying let ATC be the commander of your flight. Like I said, I don't know the whole story. Just seemed like a little bit of an overreaction on the radio-that's all. And I have declared an emergency a few times. All of them were for good reasons and I didn't have to get into a shouting match on the radio with ATC. Maybe I was dealing with better controllers.

I agree

To go on your own in NY airspace is pure insanity. They could have easily had a near miss with another aircraft for just turning on their own in the most dense airspace in the world.