AA Flight 48 oopsy

[Whataburger]

You mean his "Missing Panel Annunciator" was not illuminated? WTF? Sounds like the captain was on the ground for that flight.

Sure it wasn't the triplicated feeder to the mainfram disconbobulator valve junction?

 

[ultrarunner]

CDL that panel and press on!

 

[Whine Lover]

YOU are the PIC and YOU will be held accountable ultimately.

That was my main point, and yes LJDRVR, I am an arrogant D-Weed.

But seriously, the key words are UNKNOWN and PROBLEM.

You know you have a problem, but you don't know what it is, or more importantly...WHAT IT MIGHT TURN INTO.

Thats the "gotcha'" the Feds are going to use.

If ultimately nothing else goes awry you are okay...If something else arises as a result of the first problem and the scenario worsens YOU will be held accountable and the questions will be:

" So Captain, you felt it was prudent and cautious to continue flying an aircraft, that you knew had some sort of a problem, which you could not identify? Ultimately resulting in ( insert bad thing here ). Wouldn't it have been better to land and find out what you were really dealing with? "

I have seen this scenario way too many times:

Pilots calling Mommy (The Company), asking what to do, and deferring their ultimate responsibility to others on the ground.

In the end YOU will be held ultimately responsible for whatever happens.

And , yes, I would have just landed overweight on a nice long runway and written my Report .

Thank you.

YKMKR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If the crew knew the panel was missing would they go TransAtlantic?



Land at JFK under MLW, inspect plane...

HOLY SHAT! a panel is missing.....

fix plane and/or rebook pax....


now..... was that so hard?

 

[RJidiot]

If William Shatner was on board and having a nervous breakdown I would have landed.

/there, fixed it for ya
//you're welcome
///I'm old school

I was referring to the Twilight Zone movie where the flying monster was tearing panels off the airplane and only Lithgow could see it.

 

[AA717driver]

I've held the opinion for a long time than AA crews might be a little quick to divert for possible mx issues.

MIA is the most radical base in...well, the WORLD.

Those two items tell me that there was no indication that would mandate a diversion or RTB.

If I diverted every time a FA heard a strange noise, I'd have to work till 70 to make up for the lost pay!

And, the FAA will prosecute them to the fullest extent, Monday-morning-QB'ing (at least to the extent their limited experience will permit...) all the way because we all know how closely the FAA is monitoring the airlines, right? TC

P.S.: Whataburger--Quit whining. If that lovefest you have with management ever ends, we'll understand when YOU decide to 'send a message'. Ok?

Besides, since Redding sold all our parts, we're rollin' on cheap retreads. Wouldn't want any 'road-agators' fouling the runway at PHX and FOD'ding out our precious JT-8's, would we...

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

I've held the opinion for a long time than AA crews might be a little quick to divert for possible mx issues.

MIA is the most radical base in...well, the WORLD.

Those two items tell me that there was no indication that would mandate a diversion or RTB.

If I diverted every time a FA heard a strange noise, I'd have to work till 70 to make up for the lost pay!

And, the FAA will prosecute them to the fullest extent, Monday-morning-QB'ing (at least to the extent their limited experience will permit...) all the way because we all know how closely the FAA is monitoring the airlines, right? TC

P.S.: Whataburger--Quit whining. If that lovefest you have with management ever ends, we'll understand when YOU decide to 'send a message'. Ok?

Besides, since Redding sold all our parts, we're rollin' on cheap retreads. Wouldn't want any 'road-agators' fouling the runway at PHX and FOD'ding out our precious JT-8's, would we...

Bashing another guy about a lovefest? And then a captain gets overridden by a management type. Classic.

 

[Daedalus]

I was referring to the Twilight Zone movie where the flying monster was tearing panels off the airplane and only Lithgow could see it.

So was Tailgunner.

Lithgow reprised the original Twilight Zone episode that was performed by Bill Shatner.....ergo Tailgunner's "old school" comment.

 

[RJidiot]

So was Tailgunner.

Lithgow reprised the original Twilight Zone episode that was performed by Bill Shatner.....ergo Tailgunner's "old school" comment.

Didn't catch that one. Thanks.

 

[skypine69]

I love the part in the article where the source who was not on the flight described the flight as bumpy! Gee really, a flight across the north atlantic bumpy? so it isnt so!!! not only does mesa suck, but the media sucks!

 

[Redmeat]

If the crew knew the panel was missing would they go TransAtlantic?



Land at JFK under MLW, inspect plane...

HOLY SHAT! a panel is missing.....

fix plane and/or rebook pax....


now..... was that so hard?

I agree.

Would the CA have faced disciplinary action for bringing the ship back around into DFW with an unknown problem?

Nope.

Will he face disciplinary action for taking the ship all the way to Europa with a constant rumble?

Possibly.

I know what choice I would go with.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

So where's the mechanic who last accessed the panel. Wondering what casued this to come loose and tear off.

 

[LJDRVR]

and yes LJDRVR, I am an arrogant D-Weed.

I knew it!

All kidding aside, I see what you're saying, but I still think your painting with a larger brush than necessary.

You break this down in terms of a stronger focus on accountability vs. risk management. It's the latter we should be concerned with.

I agree there are a lot of folks who defer way to much to maintenance, to the other pilot, to ATC, you name it. But I approach this from a standpoint of:

Nobody is going to second guess my decision, but I would be an idiot not to listen to what another certificated airman had to say.

I am not going to make my decision based on what I think the FAA is going to do to me if it turns out I was incorrect.

In the scenario above, there is no cockpit indication of a problem, our only anomaly is a FA who said she "heard" some noise. In a perfectly normally operating jet, with four plus more hours of land and multiple divert bases, it is much more safe to continue than to land and heat up your brakes till they are red. I would much rather take my chances with some "noise". After all, these are modern, reliable jets we fly - we're not talking about pressing on past the PNR in a R3350-powered Connie whose PRT's are acting up.

Landing overweight = real, quantifiable danger
Continuing after discussing the issue with MX and seeing no abnormal = much, much, lower risk.

Again, there is no incorrect answer to this one. Landing out will not cause anybody to question your judgement, unless you blow a tire(s) and have some other fun occur.

Continuing will not cause anybody to question your judgement, unless a catastrophic failure occurs. ("If if only we had listened to Mary-Beth!! aughhh!!!!!"[sound of impact])

I know which one I'd rather take my chances with. Don't call me an idiot because you assumed I simply folded to company pressure.

Blue Skies, Brother...

 

[FreightGod]

Did any of the three pilots walk to the back to hear the noise?

Yes, they sure did, all 3 took the situation pretty darn seriously, but had no indications or a strong reason to return.

I have lost pieces of Boeings a few times myself, but never returned: No rumblings, no vibration, no nothing: One time a large panel on top of the wing about the size of a bed flew off, another time an engine cowling departed on take-off and hit the tail, the third time a failed jack screw on the inboard flap caused the flap to jump tracks and the inboard aileron was rubbing against it on approach with pieces flying every time they touched. An F/A saw it and later decribed it to us. I asked him why he did not call the cockpit to tell us what was going on. He said he was trained to not disturb the cockpit during sterile periods.

 

[viking737]

>7may08/0848
To - All Pilots Re - Flight With Missing Panel
You Might Have Heard Some Rumors About A 767 Dfw-cdg Flight
That Continued To Cdg After A Panel Departed The A/c On Climb-
Out. To Set The Record Straight, The Crew, Including The Fb Who
Was In The Cabin, Heard A Noise And Felt A Short-lived Vib-
Ration Just After Passing 10,000 Ft. The Captain Treated The
Incident In A Very Professional Manner And Consulted With His
Fellow Pilots, The Cabin Crew, Dispatch, And Afw Tech On What
The Noise Could Have Been. Based On His Discussions With ¥
Dispatch And Afw Tech Along With The Fact There Were No Lights,¥
System Abnormalities Or Further Noises Or Vibrations Present,
The Captain Decided To Continue To Cdg Believing The Noise
Might Have Been A Cargo Container Shift. Given That The A/c Was
100,000 Lbs Overweight For Landing At Dfw, He Continued The
Flight Knowing That If Anything Recurred They Could Land Before
Entering The Oceanic Portion Of The Flight. The Captain Also
Had The Off-duty Pilots Monitoring The Cabin Throughout The
Flight For Any Noises Or Unusual Vibrations, None Were Heard Or
Felt. The Captain Also Monitored Fuel Burn And It Was Normal.
*********continued As Dfw-cdg Flight, Pt 2
**************dfw-cdg Flight, Pt 2
Upon Landing In Cdg, Ground Personnel Informed The Crew That A
Large Panel, The Left Hand Pack Access Panel, Was Missing On
The Underside Of The Airplane. Pictures Of This Missing Panel
Have Been Circulating Along With Some Criticism Of The Captain
For Not Returning To Dfw. The Facts Of The Matter Are That This
Captain Did Exactly What We Want Our Captains To Do. He Did Not
Make This Decision In A Vacuum; He Consulted With His Fellow
Crewmembers On The Plane And With Support Staff On The Ground.
There Was No Way This Crew Could Have Known This Panel Had
Departed The A/c. If They Had Known, They Obviously Would Have
Returned. While The Pictures Are Very Dramatic, The A/c And
Passengers Were Never In Any Danger From The Missing Panel.
Given The Information The Captain Had To Work With, We Feel
This Captain Made A Sound, Informed Decision To Continue The
Flight.
.
Ca Jim Kaiser - Mgr Flt Ops Quality Control
Ca Chuck Harman - 757/767 Fleet Captain
31