AA Flight 48 oopsy

[Redmeat]

If the crew knew the panel was missing would they go TransAtlantic?



Land at JFK under MLW, inspect plane...

HOLY SHAT! a panel is missing.....

fix plane and/or rebook pax....


now..... was that so hard?

I agree.

Would the CA have faced disciplinary action for bringing the ship back around into DFW with an unknown problem?

Nope.

Will he face disciplinary action for taking the ship all the way to Europa with a constant rumble?

Possibly.

I know what choice I would go with.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

So where's the mechanic who last accessed the panel. Wondering what casued this to come loose and tear off.

 

[LJDRVR]

and yes LJDRVR, I am an arrogant D-Weed.

I knew it!

All kidding aside, I see what you're saying, but I still think your painting with a larger brush than necessary.

You break this down in terms of a stronger focus on accountability vs. risk management. It's the latter we should be concerned with.

I agree there are a lot of folks who defer way to much to maintenance, to the other pilot, to ATC, you name it. But I approach this from a standpoint of:

Nobody is going to second guess my decision, but I would be an idiot not to listen to what another certificated airman had to say.

I am not going to make my decision based on what I think the FAA is going to do to me if it turns out I was incorrect.

In the scenario above, there is no cockpit indication of a problem, our only anomaly is a FA who said she "heard" some noise. In a perfectly normally operating jet, with four plus more hours of land and multiple divert bases, it is much more safe to continue than to land and heat up your brakes till they are red. I would much rather take my chances with some "noise". After all, these are modern, reliable jets we fly - we're not talking about pressing on past the PNR in a R3350-powered Connie whose PRT's are acting up.

Landing overweight = real, quantifiable danger
Continuing after discussing the issue with MX and seeing no abnormal = much, much, lower risk.

Again, there is no incorrect answer to this one. Landing out will not cause anybody to question your judgement, unless you blow a tire(s) and have some other fun occur.

Continuing will not cause anybody to question your judgement, unless a catastrophic failure occurs. ("If if only we had listened to Mary-Beth!! aughhh!!!!!"[sound of impact])

I know which one I'd rather take my chances with. Don't call me an idiot because you assumed I simply folded to company pressure.

Blue Skies, Brother...

 

[FreightGod]

Did any of the three pilots walk to the back to hear the noise?

Yes, they sure did, all 3 took the situation pretty darn seriously, but had no indications or a strong reason to return.

I have lost pieces of Boeings a few times myself, but never returned: No rumblings, no vibration, no nothing: One time a large panel on top of the wing about the size of a bed flew off, another time an engine cowling departed on take-off and hit the tail, the third time a failed jack screw on the inboard flap caused the flap to jump tracks and the inboard aileron was rubbing against it on approach with pieces flying every time they touched. An F/A saw it and later decribed it to us. I asked him why he did not call the cockpit to tell us what was going on. He said he was trained to not disturb the cockpit during sterile periods.

 

[viking737]

>7may08/0848
To - All Pilots Re - Flight With Missing Panel
You Might Have Heard Some Rumors About A 767 Dfw-cdg Flight
That Continued To Cdg After A Panel Departed The A/c On Climb-
Out. To Set The Record Straight, The Crew, Including The Fb Who
Was In The Cabin, Heard A Noise And Felt A Short-lived Vib-
Ration Just After Passing 10,000 Ft. The Captain Treated The
Incident In A Very Professional Manner And Consulted With His
Fellow Pilots, The Cabin Crew, Dispatch, And Afw Tech On What
The Noise Could Have Been. Based On His Discussions With ¥
Dispatch And Afw Tech Along With The Fact There Were No Lights,¥
System Abnormalities Or Further Noises Or Vibrations Present,
The Captain Decided To Continue To Cdg Believing The Noise
Might Have Been A Cargo Container Shift. Given That The A/c Was
100,000 Lbs Overweight For Landing At Dfw, He Continued The
Flight Knowing That If Anything Recurred They Could Land Before
Entering The Oceanic Portion Of The Flight. The Captain Also
Had The Off-duty Pilots Monitoring The Cabin Throughout The
Flight For Any Noises Or Unusual Vibrations, None Were Heard Or
Felt. The Captain Also Monitored Fuel Burn And It Was Normal.
*********continued As Dfw-cdg Flight, Pt 2
**************dfw-cdg Flight, Pt 2
Upon Landing In Cdg, Ground Personnel Informed The Crew That A
Large Panel, The Left Hand Pack Access Panel, Was Missing On
The Underside Of The Airplane. Pictures Of This Missing Panel
Have Been Circulating Along With Some Criticism Of The Captain
For Not Returning To Dfw. The Facts Of The Matter Are That This
Captain Did Exactly What We Want Our Captains To Do. He Did Not
Make This Decision In A Vacuum; He Consulted With His Fellow
Crewmembers On The Plane And With Support Staff On The Ground.
There Was No Way This Crew Could Have Known This Panel Had
Departed The A/c. If They Had Known, They Obviously Would Have
Returned. While The Pictures Are Very Dramatic, The A/c And
Passengers Were Never In Any Danger From The Missing Panel.
Given The Information The Captain Had To Work With, We Feel
This Captain Made A Sound, Informed Decision To Continue The
Flight.
.
Ca Jim Kaiser - Mgr Flt Ops Quality Control
Ca Chuck Harman - 757/767 Fleet Captain
31

 

[bubbers44]

I just read the report by one of the pilots involved about what really happened. The cabin crew was very much in the loop and the resting pilot was also back there observing and talking to all of the FA's about what happened. The captain walked through the cabin and talked to all of the FA's before the oceanic portion of flight. The hearing with the FAA and all concerned has been done and the crew has been commended on a job well done. Unfortunately one FA decided to write the press with her take on it after the fact. Her over zealous attack on the captain was uncalled for and I hope he sues her for deflamation of character. I have had FA's try to second guess me with situations like that and have given up on trying to get through to them.

 

[say again]

I remember a flight a few months back and after gear retraction-BANG. At first I thought we might have hit a bird or something. It was a low overcast, wintery night out of MSP, so that quickly erased that theory. The PF stated that the plane was flying normal (I concurred as well after I took controls for a test), all indications were normal, I visually inspected the wings (empty leg), and decided it was safe to continue to our destination of MKC. As we were flying we were discussing what that could have been, and came to "conclusion" that it was probably a piece of ice that broke off once the gear was retracted. Low and behold there was a dent just aft of the nosewheel. We made the decision to continue, and I stand by that decision. The crew of AA48 made their decision based on what they knew, and ALL involved did a fine job.

 

[Whine Lover]

Glad it all worked out, this time. And that Management (C-Suckers) was very happy with their "Boys".

"Hero's"....I tell you! Hero's, every one.

I now return to the continuation of my being an arrogant D-Weed.

Thank You.

YKMKR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

>
The Captain Decided To Continue To Cdg Believing The Noise
Might Have Been A Cargo Container Shift.

Was a CG calculation made for this cargo shift?

He Continued The
Flight Knowing That If Anything Recurred They Could Land Before
Entering The Oceanic Portion Of The Flight.

What if something occured AFTER entering the oceanic portion of the flight.

The Facts Of The Matter Are That This
Captain Did Exactly What We Want Our Captains To Do.

Yup... he put revenue before safety.

Land at JFK. Inspect the jet. Get a new crew. Rebook.... lots of options..

 

[bubbers44]

Rez, Your Citabria didn't require a lot of crew resource management. They used it all well and did the logical thing. The cpt used all his resources and concluded continuing made the most sense. I agree with him.

 

[say again]

Yup... he put revenue before safety.

Yeah because Im sure the crew doesn't value their safety!!!

What if this, what if that?? They landed safely, nobody was hurt, and they got to their destination. Great job and use of CRM by the crew.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Problem is... if something did happen then the company and FAA would hang the pilot. Its just that it turned out ok...

Back to my Citabria

 

[AA717driver]

Problem is... if something did happen then the company and FAA would hang the pilot. Its just that it turned out ok...

Back to my Citabria

Of course, nothing could possibly go wrong when landing 100,000 lbs. overweight...

"Was a CG calculation made for this cargo shift?" Next time you shine Prater's shoes, ask him about flying big airplanes. It's a lot different than what you fly apparently.

They flew more than two hours up to Oceanic Airspace monitoring the situation (with NO further indication of a problem)--OR, they could bore holes in the sky over North TX dumping fuel while monitoring the situation.

We weren't there. TC

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Of course, nothing could possibly go wrong when landing 100,000 lbs. overweight...

"Was a CG calculation made for this cargo shift?" Next time you shine Prater's shoes, ask him about flying big airplanes. It's a lot different than what you fly apparently.

They flew more than two hours up to Oceanic Airspace monitoring the situation (with NO further indication of a problem)--OR, they could bore holes in the sky over North TX dumping fuel while monitoring the situation.

We weren't there. TC

Or they could've landed in JFK or BOS. If they did and and saw the panel would they continue?

What is the jet doing now. Did it turn in CDG and fly back on schedule? Is the pack panel on the MEL/CDI?


Just asking? back to my fabric covered taildragger..

 

[Falconjet]

If those guys were ALPA National pilots ole Rez would be singing their praises.

FJ

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If those guys were ALPA National pilots ole Rez would be singing their praises.

FJ

Not sure the ALPA Nat'l guys know how to still fly...

 

[captain dad]

My wife was flying home from Austin TX today on AA. After pushing back the crew discovered a major hydraulic leak. At least they had the brains to stay on the ground, thank CHRIST!

If this keeps going, I see re-regulation in the not too distant future.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Gus!!!

"the hatch just blew..."

GUS!!!

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Glad it all worked out, this time. And that Management (C-Suckers) was very happy with their "Boys".

"Hero's"....I tell you! Hero's, every one.

I now return to the continuation of my being an arrogant D-Weed.

Thank You.

YKMKR

No, you can continue your being a ignorant, head up your arse, clueless D-Weed.

Your logic just mirrors that of the hysterical, clueless rantings of the elderly cat rancher who blew this non event into a national issue. Poor "Bitzi" had her paranoid mind short-circuit at the irrational thought of her cats, Fluffy, Snowball and Mr Pickles living without her after she was sucked through the mix-valve and out the open pack door. Her blood ran cold at the thought of her kittys getting fed the wrong can of fancy feast out of sequence, which any legacy pilot knows is a true emergency.

Feel free to give the group a pilot report after landing a 767-300 at 390K+ sometime Mr D-Weed.

 

[say again]

Problem is... if something did happen then the company and FAA would hang the pilot. Its just that it turned out ok...

Back to my Citabria

Problem is......nothing!!! The entire crew(mx and all) decided it was safe to continue. Answer this question - Why would 3 experienced pilots, MX personnel, and others involved risk the lives of hundreds of people???

Answer-They wouldn't. It was an honest, correct decision by all involved!!