AA Flight 48 oopsy

[AA717driver]

Your logic just mirrors that of the hysterical, clueless rantings of the elderly cat rancher who blew this non event into a national issue. Poor "Bitzi" had her paranoid mind short-circuit at the irrational thought of her cats, Fluffy, Snowball and Mr Pickles living without her after she was sucked through the mix-valve and out the open pack door. Her blood ran cold at the thought of her kittys getting fed the wrong can of fancy feast out of sequence, which any legacy pilot knows is a true emergency.

Feel free to give the group a pilot report after landing a 767-300 at 390K+ sometime Mr D-Weed.

Now, THAT'S funny! Spoken like a true Int'l. 767 pilot... TC

 

[svcta]

yes LJDRVR, I am an arrogant D-Weed.

But seriously, the key words are UNKNOWN and PROBLEM.

You know you have a problem, but you don't know what it is, or more importantly...WHAT IT MIGHT TURN INTO.
Thats the "gotcha'" the Feds are going to use.



Pilots calling Mommy (The Company), asking what to do, and deferring their ultimate responsibility to others on the ground.

In the end YOU will be held ultimately responsible for whatever happens.

And , yes, I would have just landed overweight on a nice long runway and written my Report .

Thank you.

YKMKR

The primary flaw from the armchair is that there was no "unknown problem". I've heard airplanes make lots of noises in just about every phase of a flight, I never assumed that it was broken because of what somebody heard. Especially in modern aircraft with a million crew alert items, if we have no clear(or even subtle) indication of a problem we can't say there's a problem. So there was NO UNKNOWN PROBLEM. Just an unidentified noise, which happens all the time. No indications, no airframe vibrations(according to the crew), no system abnormalities. Where's the problem, from a crew standpoint?

And we all know that FAs can be a little dramatic. It sounds as if the crew did everything perfectly to me. Including "calling mommy" as you put it. The captain used every resource at his disposal to arrive at a decision that ultimately lead to a safely executed flight. If 4 or 5 professionals can arrive at the same conclusion after consideration and monitoring then the job is done. I would have acted the same way and would have felt good about our decision were I a part of that crew.

Overweight landing is the best option to you. Can anyone find the landing #s for that configuration?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Another unknown:

Why did the FA go public? She might by psycho or she was treated poorly in the decision/team process. Which means poor CRM. Perhaps she wanted to land and was over ruled too harsly. Maybe she is just a boitch.... another factor for us armchairs...

Since this even turned out well... like the LH Xwind Airbus landing.. the company is turining it into a internal PR positive....

And if the missing panel was visible from any given window? Press on or land?


No likes the idea of landing in JFK or BOS....


Oh well.... can someone help me handprop my Citabria... I hate doing alone....

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Another unknown:

Why did the FA go public? She might by psycho or she was treated poorly in the decision/team process. Which means poor CRM. Perhaps she wanted to land and was over ruled too harsly. Maybe she is just a boitch.... another factor for us armchairs...

The FA didn't go "public", the FA circulated a clueless, snotty email amongst the FA's and it took a life of it's own. Other exceptionally stupid and clueless FA's sent it outside AA.

Was she treated poorly in the process? I doubt it. I've flown with the Captain involved a few years ago, he's a super nice guy and a good decison maker. The
FACTS on how he handled the non-event only confirm my previous experience, and if my memory is correct, his wife is an AA FA.

More than likely, this issue has been blown out of proportion by a member of a certain small disgruntled clueless group (AA's thrice divorced, age 50+ clueless cat ranchers) I can tell you that no amount of touchy feely validation along with an explanation of the facts will change their preconceived opinions.

Most of their thinking is that every decison should be a committee meeting of pilots and FA's in the forward galley, one equal vote for each person, and anyone voicing a dissenting view from the groupthink is branded an infidel heretic. In fact, it's just like the description of a democracy where 5 wolves and 2 sheep voting on what's for dinner, except it's 9 FA's deciding if they accept the decisons of 3 pilots. Usually, the end point of thought with this clueless minority is not what is right or legal, it's what they "feel" to be "fair". When that happens, any legitimate authority such as a Captain, Customs/Immigration, law enforcement, TSA, ect is discounted as mean, condescending and insensitive to their "feelings".

This is still a minority of mostly a pretty good professional group of FA's. First place we go to when getting info regarding unannunciated sounds from the back is the FA's.

FA's saved AA when they jumped a 6'5" AL-Queda shoe bomber, I never forget that.

 

[say again]

And if the missing panel was visible from any given window? Press on or land?


No likes the idea of landing in JFK or BOS....


Oh well.... can someone help me handprop my Citabria... I hate doing alone....

If there was a visible problem then you land, BUT this was not visible.

It's funny that people say say land in JFK or BOS when this happened a few minutes after T/O. If you were so "worried" about a noise then why not land somewhere closer to DFW??

 

[LJDRVR]

The FA didn't go "public", the FA circulated a clueless, snotty email amongst the FA's and it took a life of it's own. Other exceptionally stupid and clueless FA's sent it outside AA.

Was she treated poorly in the process? I doubt it. I've flown with the Captain involved a few years ago, he's a super nice guy and a good decison maker. The
FACTS on how he handled the non-event only confirm my previous experience, and if my memory is correct, his wife is an AA FA.

More than likely, this issue has been blown out of proportion by a member of a certain small disgruntled clueless group (AA's thrice divorced, age 50+ clueless cat ranchers) I can tell you that no amount of touchy feely validation along with an explanation of the facts will change their preconceived opinions.

Most of their thinking is that every decison should be a committee meeting of pilots and FA's in the forward galley, one equal vote for each person, and anyone voicing a dissenting view from the groupthink is branded an infidel heretic. In fact, it's just like the description of a democracy where 5 wolves and 2 sheep voting on what's for dinner, except it's 9 FA's deciding if they accept the decisons of 3 pilots. Usually, the end point of thought with this clueless minority is not what is right or legal, it's what they "feel" to be "fair". When that happens, any legitimate authority such as a Captain, Customs/Immigration, law enforcement, TSA, ect is discounted as mean, condescending and insensitive to their "feelings".

This is still a minority of mostly a pretty good professional group of FA's. First place we go to when getting info regarding unannunciated sounds from the back is the FA's.

FA's saved AA when they jumped a 6'5" AL-Queda shoe bomber, I never forget that.

Post of the day! Please take your well-reasoned, logical thinking elsewhere.

 

[Mooneymite]

This incident is a good example where making a sound "operational decision" may not be good enough.

I remember when a Delta captain inadvertently shut down both engines on a B-767 climbing out of LAX. After turning the fuel ignition switches back on, he confered with the "head shed" all the way up to the VP of flight operations. The decision was unanimous: There was nothing wrong with the airplane and the flight should continue to Atlanta.

However operationally correct the decision was, or was not, it was a PR nightmare. As I recall, Delta got beaten up in the press and sued by the passengers even though the aircraft made it to ATL just fine.

Lesson here: the decision makers sometimes have to think outside of the "operations box" and look at the bigger picture. Pilots don't get too much training in this arena. Maybe we can all learn from someone else's OJT.

 

[Whine Lover]

Man you guys are TOO easy to get going.

Thanks for the entertainment.

I'm really not as BIG a D-Weed as the posts on this thread would lead you to believe...But, I can be a D-Weed nonetheless.

I figure, why not pick something I'm good at and stick with it?

Besides, watching some of these responses is as much fun as teasing my younger Brothers when I was a Kid...Spin em' up and watch em' GO!

That said, I still would have done a turnback and landed.

Buh-Bye Kids...No further transmissions. ( If your Lucky.)

Sincerely,

Richard Weed

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If there was a visible problem then you land, BUT this was not visible.

It's funny that people say say land in JFK or BOS when this happened a few minutes after T/O. If you were so "worried" about a noise then why not land somewhere closer to DFW??

Closer to DFW was over MLW. If all was good but uncertain then fly to New England... land. If nothing is wrong, take off and continue....

Is that so hard?


But if a panel was missing would you take off again without it? Anyone want to tackle this tough question?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

More than likely, this issue has been blown out of proportion by a member of a certain small disgruntled clueless group (AA's thrice divorced, age 50+ clueless cat ranchers) I can tell you that no amount of touchy feely validation along with an explanation of the facts will change their preconceived opinions.

Most of their thinking is that every decison should be a committee meeting of pilots and FA's in the forward galley, one equal vote for each person, and anyone voicing a dissenting view from the groupthink is branded an infidel heretic. In fact, it's just like the description of a democracy where 5 wolves and 2 sheep voting on what's for dinner, except it's 9 FA's deciding if they accept the decisons of 3 pilots. Usually, the end point of thought with this clueless minority is not what is right or legal, it's what they "feel" to be "fair". When that happens, any legitimate authority such as a Captain, Customs/Immigration, law enforcement, TSA, ect is discounted as mean, condescending and insensitive to their "feelings".

I guess that's one good thing about flying an RJ... or cargo...