9e/xj/9l picketing 12/10 mem

[DoinTime]

I never thought this would be appropriate, but what the hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

 

[xjhawk]

And I would give up my sucky position at 9E to start all over at the bottom of another sucky position with no upgrade in sight? I'd rather hang on at Pinnacle, an upgrade isn't too far away. The latest vacancy is kinda close.

it was a joke, do not give up your seniority and if you are close to an upgrade, thats where your bets should be placed.

 

[gojo]

You know, regardless of my thoughts on YOUR personal matters, I walked with you several years ago. It's about unity.

It's one thing not to take a stand and say nothing about picketing attendance. It's completely a different monster to actively take a stand for a MEC and declare a no-support. Your MEC has only looked at its own interest, without the interest of the other two. If there was unity, at the very least, your MEC would take a "neutral" stance on our picketing. But no matter. From now on, I'm sure our MEC will put only our own interests first. Can't count how many Mesaba guys I've heard touting a 1-for-1 integration with Pinnacle. Good luck! With you guys turning your backs on us in this critical time, do not expect me to support you anymore like I did a few years ago.

Isn't that what they did when they decided to go off on their own? It was the wrong time do picket, plain and simple. Do you even care to try to understand the reasons why that decision was made? The problem is you are thinking based on actions from the past and not the present. As I and many others on here say. This is a JCBA not section 6 negotiations. and who pickets after only 69 days of negotiations that are progressing? It was time for your MEC to suppout the other two and they let everyone down. We haven't seen much of a difference between the Pinnacle managers and those at XJ. To me they look and act like managers do. It's their job to be profitable and the challenge is for the negotiating committee and the company to find ways that work for everyone. Let them do their job. If progress stops we will be walking with you. You can count on that. And I'm also sure we would have full support from all three MECs, national, and probably others

 

[SEVEN]

I never thought this would be appropriate, but what the hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

Been wonder'n when the old DoinTime would chime in. Glad to see you could make it to the party. Do you actually think that such a cheezy video is going to help such a polarizing issue we are facing between the Mesaba and Pinnacle pilot groups? Maybe you should have suggested this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4

 

[gojo]

Amen. XJ guys made a mistake in doing this. Think about it. They only statement you have made is that you are anti 9E. Mgt does not care that you are their patsy's.

For the record we are not anti 9E. I have met a lot of class acts that over there. The problem is with your leadership. How good did they do for you the last 6 years? Why are you trusting them now? They are leading you astray. Do some research, get some facts. They are doing and sayinng some radical things that only seem to be dividing us pilots. Breaking away and picketing at this time was wrong and sending that e-mail to you about our lack of support was wrong also. Neither one did anything to better the cause, but in fact made things worse. Even if we were told it was ok to picket and that it was felt the timing was wrong, the root of the problem is still there. And that is there is one MEC that cannot work together with the other two. We need a contract that is good for everyone.

 

[SEVEN]

Time For Some Facts!

Time will tell.

XJ MEC, 9L MEC, Delta MEC, ALPA NAtional, Lee Moak and John Prater all asked the 9E MEC not to picket while negotiations are moving forward. They also have a signed agreement not to use these tactics while good faith negotiations are going on.

The Pinnacle MEC leadership is wrong. They think they are being strong, but it only comes across as weak. Time will tell.

 

[Top Gum]

[FONT=&quot]Seven, what’s your source on this? [/FONT]

 

[higney85]

XJ MEC, 9L MEC, Delta MEC, ALPA NAtional, Lee Moak and John Prater all asked the 9E MEC not to picket while negotiations are moving forward. They also have a signed agreement not to use these tactics while good faith negotiations are going on.

The Pinnacle MEC leadership is wrong. They think they are being strong, but it only comes across as weak. Time will tell.

Negative. On all accounts except XJ and 9L.

 

[gojo]

Negative. On all accounts except XJ and 9L.

Does it really matter? If 2/3 say neigh why would one go and do it anyway?

 

[Flyer1015]

The truth is Pinnacle does not support us, Colgan or the interests of the negotiations. We are in this together....I don't see the benefit in the 9E MEC wanting to open this can of worms during this time. It's not about you anymore, it's about us. If the wisdom of our MEC leadership decides that picketing would be counter-productive at this juncture, then we have to support the decision especially when all the facts are not on the table.
The statement made by the Mesaba MEC leadership was in a nutshell: stop being hotheads and reacting with shear emotion.

Arguing with a Mesaba pilot like SEVEN is like arguing with a mule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh33bGAxl58

 

[redflyer65]

Pinnacle management screwing 3 pilot groups at once and laughing all the way to the bank. Classic.

"Takin' back" - PCL management

 

[bri5150]

Pinnacle management screwing 3 pilot groups at once and laughing all the way to the bank. Classic.

"Takin' back" - PCL management

Tell me what Pinnacle Management has done to screw all 3 pilot groups? From what I have been told from my reps is that they are coming our way on things the last few days. They are pretty pissed about this picketing, so that's why Mesaba and Colgan have taken their stance. They are trying to keep things going. Maybe it was all set up as a good cop bad cop thing by our union? Meh, probably not.

 

[SEVEN]

Mesaba MEC Rebuttal To 9E's Email

Fellow Mesaba Pilot,

Today, the PCL MEC voiced concern in its newsletter about the MSA and CJC MECs’ lack of support for their picketing event scheduled for today. A little more information may help you understand this situation and why the MSA and CJC MEC’s decided not to participate in the informational picketing at this time.

We are engaged in an unprecedented effort to combine three companies and three pilot groups that currently work under two different contracts, and Colgan who currently works under no agreement, into one unified pilot group with a contract that recognizes and rewards our contributions. We hope that this historic effort will result in a strong, integrated company that can survive and succeed in a consolidating environment. If this happens, it will provide the pilots at all three airlines greater career opportunities and financial rewards.

Our efforts are underpinned by an agreement between our three pilot groups that requires discussion and coordination of our efforts during this joint process. The Colgan and Mesaba MECs were asked last week if we would agree to support this week’s picketing events (prior to the negotiating deadline) that were being organized by the Pinnacle Pilots. Both MEC’s position on this subject was while progress was being made towards a joint agreement, picketing would be counterproductive to our joint efforts. Our MECs pledged full support – at picketing, and otherwise – for PCL pilots if our efforts fail in the joint negotiations.

We think our attention this week should be directed fully to reaching an agreement that benefits all three pilot groups and that is our goal. Our view on this is picketing while the company is negotiating in good faith only undermines the efforts of our negotiators. We absolutely support the PCL pilots in their effort to reach a new agreement, and we are absolutely committed to continuing to work together. Our only true disagreement was over the timing of this event. Our view is that fully focusing on the negotiations, so long as there is meaningful progress, is the right approach.

As we’ve continued to brief you, there are many accomplishments in these negotiations, and we hope our talks will result in a comprehensive agreement very soon. Some of the most notable improvements already achieved include:

· Scope protections that ensure our job security and completely prevent the whipsawing of one carrier against another, including any carrier newly crafted or purchased by Holdings.

· Date of signing pay rates that include immediate raises for almost all positions, along with a split FO pay scale.

· An increase in minimum days off to 11 days for all positions, including reserve lines.

· A minimum credit of 4 hours for each duty period worked, including reserves.

· An Industry leading retirement.

· Long call reserve.

If you have any questions regarding ay of the issues discussed in this hotline, please contact one of your representatives for further clarification. At this time, negotiations still continue for a JCBA in Washington, D.C. We will keep you updated with this progress though our regular Joint Negotiating Updates.

Fraternally



The Mesaba Master Executive Council

 

[gojo]

Fellow Mesaba Pilot,

Today, the PCL MEC voiced concern in its newsletter about the MSA and CJC MECs’ lack of support for their picketing event scheduled for today. A little more information may help you understand this situation and why the MSA and CJC MEC’s decided not to participate in the informational picketing at this time.

We are engaged in an unprecedented effort to combine three companies and three pilot groups that currently work under two different contracts, and Colgan who currently works under no agreement, into one unified pilot group with a contract that recognizes and rewards our contributions. We hope that this historic effort will result in a strong, integrated company that can survive and succeed in a consolidating environment. If this happens, it will provide the pilots at all three airlines greater career opportunities and financial rewards.

Our efforts are underpinned by an agreement between our three pilot groups that requires discussion and coordination of our efforts during this joint process. The Colgan and Mesaba MECs were asked last week if we would agree to support this week’s picketing events (prior to the negotiating deadline) that were being organized by the Pinnacle Pilots. Both MEC’s position on this subject was while progress was being made towards a joint agreement, picketing would be counterproductive to our joint efforts. Our MECs pledged full support – at picketing, and otherwise – for PCL pilots if our efforts fail in the joint negotiations.

We think our attention this week should be directed fully to reaching an agreement that benefits all three pilot groups and that is our goal. Our view on this is picketing while the company is negotiating in good faith only undermines the efforts of our negotiators. We absolutely support the PCL pilots in their effort to reach a new agreement, and we are absolutely committed to continuing to work together. Our only true disagreement was over the timing of this event. Our view is that fully focusing on the negotiations, so long as there is meaningful progress, is the right approach.

As we’ve continued to brief you, there are many accomplishments in these negotiations, and we hope our talks will result in a comprehensive agreement very soon. Some of the most notable improvements already achieved include:

· Scope protections that ensure our job security and completely prevent the whipsawing of one carrier against another, including any carrier newly crafted or purchased by Holdings.

· Date of signing pay rates that include immediate raises for almost all positions, along with a split FO pay scale.

· An increase in minimum days off to 11 days for all positions, including reserve lines.

· A minimum credit of 4 hours for each duty period worked, including reserves.

· An Industry leading retirement.

· Long call reserve.

If you have any questions regarding ay of the issues discussed in this hotline, please contact one of your representatives for further clarification. At this time, negotiations still continue for a JCBA in Washington, D.C. We will keep you updated with this progress though our regular Joint Negotiating Updates.

Fraternally



The Mesaba Master Executive Council

Hope this helps

 

[SEVEN]

Hope this helps

For guys like the FlyerClown and RJLoser it doesn't matter. You can give them the facts all day long but it's still like arguing with liberals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwtG8nVpUU

 

[Flyprdu]

For guys like the FlyerClown and RJLoser it doesn't matter. You can give them the facts all day long but it's still like arguing with liberals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwtG8nVpUU

Just shut up. Hey SEVEN, I just have 6 words for you...
"How about a Before Start Check?

 

[MACH-TUCK]

WOW, is all I have to say!!! FI truly is a place where people become stupid and act like idiots... It looks like no matter what happens there is always going to be disagreements between the XJ and 9E pilots, which is understandable and I personally accept it. I was trying to be optimistic about this whole deal and hoped that we could work something out like Delta and NWA did, not everybody was happy, but most people had something to gain and for the most part it has been a successful merger.

The bottom line is we are all in the Sh!t Hole together and need to find a way out while respecting the other persons point of view.

 

[gojo]

WOW, is all I have to say!!! FI truly is a place where people become stupid and act like idiots... It looks like no matter what happens there is always going to be disagreements between the XJ and 9E pilots, which is understandable and I personally accept it. I was trying to be optimistic about this whole deal and hoped that we could work something out like Delta and NWA did, not everybody was happy, but most people had something to gain and for the most part it has been a successful merger.

The bottom line is we are all in the Sh!t Hole together and need to find a way out while respecting the other persons point of view.

It's a computer version of road rage. Some choose to spout off while hiding behind a computer screen and a fake name without adding anything constructive to the conversation. I'm still hopeful that it's olny a small minority

 

[CptMurf]

Negative. On all accounts except XJ and 9L.

They may or may not have asked 9E not to picket. I don't know, nor do I care. But National was DEFINITELY involved in XJs decision and supported us in our position, of not supporting the picketing.

The real question, which has no right or wrong answer is.... Was 9E wrong and selfish in separating from the other 2 groups in deciding to picket? Or where the other 2 groups wrong and selfish for not backing the picketing?

My answer is... The decision to picket was made BEFORE the last deadline and during negotiations which had not (and have still haven't) become stagnate and unproductive. So I believe 9E jumped the gun on this and put the JCBA, XJ, and 9Ls future in jeopardy for no reason.

 

[PCL_128]

Those of you who are claiming that the Mesaba union leadership doesn't know how to deal with hostile management really don't know your history. I know it seems like ancient history to some of you guys who probably weren't even in the industry at the time, but I remember as a PCL FO watching the strike deadline ticking down for the Mesaba pilots to shut down their airline in early 2004. They had the balls to stand up to hostile management, and they won. And when the same hostile management team tried to force them into taking a horrible bankruptcy contract in 2006, they fought back and got a contract in bankruptcy that is still one of the best regional contracts in the industry 4 years later.

No, the Mesaba pilots are no sissies. They know how to fight back against hostile management teams. Some of you may not even know the names Spanjers and Foley, but they were every bit as hostile as Phildo and his merry band of management degenerates. Don't sell the Mesaba pilot group short.

But by the same token, Scott Erickson is no dummy as some of the Mesaba pilots here are claiming. Scott has worked his tail off for many years at Pinnacle, and lots of Pinnacle pilots have benefited from the work he's done. I don't know if he's making the right decisions now, and neither do you, but he deserves respect just as the Mesaba leadership does.

I won't get into the middle of your picketing debate. That's between the two of you. But just try not to let a debate about an issue become a debate about one side or the other being a bunch of sissies or a bunch of morons. That won't get anybody anywhere. Debate the issue, not the people.