9E Wins Race to Bottom

[COOPERVANE]

A good review of our history. We are playing checkers on a chessboard

http://www.culturewars.com/2011/Pilots.htm

 

[Av8rPHX]

From pubic Infomation:

81 posts and not one comment on this?? You guys are slipping!!!

 

[livin'thesim]

Go research "pattern bargaining" and the history of contract negotiations under the RLA and get back to us.

Go study economics. That will trump pilot-think mythology any day of the week.

The contracts from those days were negotiated in an entirely different economic environment. The so-called "bar" effect appeared to be valid due to the environment at the time.

But pilots still believe in their pet mythologies, because it is easier than going through the difficult work of understanding how a market actually works.

 

[777forever]

Go study economics. That will trump pilot-think mythology any day of the week.

The contracts from those days were negotiated in an entirely different economic environment. The so-called "bar" effect appeared to be valid due to the environment at the time.

But pilots still believe in their pet mythologies, because it is easier than going through the difficult work of understanding how a market actually works.

Well said!

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2

 

[xjhawk]

It will pass 70/30. That is my prediction as there are too many people who need a few key items to get them by until there is hiring elsewhere (not regionals).

The ultra senior pilots (XJ)-will vote yes as they want their spot at Delta in a year or two. Those who think their age is preventing them from going will most likely vote yes just to hold onto a $85k a year job for the next few years before they retire.

The middle seniority and low seniority captains will vote yes for keeping a job until they see something better come along. some are even buying into the "bridge agreement" but those are the higher seniority ones who are not 5-7 years away from that "interview". Good luck if you called in sick too much or any trips to the chiefs office are documented-as Delta will be reviewing all that before you walk into your interview.

Everyone is also looking at the options out there if we close up shop. Starting over means no vacation, year 1 pay and a lot of other contract things we have that such places as Go Jets does not have-we will still have our min day, trip guaranty, better vacation than if we started over etc etc. All you telling us to vote no should have been negotiating a deal to get us or give us our seniority and work rules vacation etc at your airline if we voted no and Pinnacle shut down. Its easy to say vote no and end up on the street when its not your job.

The FO's will vote mainly yes for many of the above reasons and the fact that it is easier to look for a job while we still have a job.

Those that vote no-well I cannot blame them. The TA sucks. Its unbelievable that ALPA national and our MEC are pushing a yes vote-I do think there is a conflict of interest as Delta ALPA knew this was going to happen with the loss of our CRJ 200 fleet-and the more money Delta makes by screwing Pinnacle, the more money Delta pilots can make. Those that vote no are just stubborn and have the resources or lack of mortgage/family to support and can make that brave vote of no. Hell I wish I had a sugar mama to support me while I voted no and became jobless.

Until ALPA has equal representation or there is a method for supporting pilots who draw a line in the sand-guess what? Shut up with telling me how to vote for my career. My vote was based solely on my economic and future job search. For you idiots out there.....My vote was to keep a job while I look for a new job. To make my mortgage, support my kids, and find a new job.

 

[ex j-41]

At some point you have to determine what you are worth and how much you will allow management to steal from you.
At what point would you vote "no"?
How bad does the TA have to suck in order for you to tell management "no"?
Pinnacle is in this predicament because of management. Both Delta and Pinnacle.
Why should they get the screaming deal of the century while you suffer?
And why is this acceptable to you? Your selling out yourself and the rest of your brothers by voting yes.
Vote "no". Collect unemployment insurance and find another job. There are plenty out there that will start at $50k. He'll you might even be able to get insurance to buy you a type rating.

 

[bri5150]

Alpa should pay the "signing bonus" for this to be voted down. This ta would not pass and alpa would have held the line.

 

[Theoden]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines? How does Pinnacle going under and flooding the market with unemployed pilots help other airlines? These are two possible outcomes if Pinnacle pilots vote down the TA. Resent history has shown that we have very little power indeed. Pay will go up when the demand for pilots is greater than the supply.

 

[xjhawk]

At some point you have to determine what you are worth and how much you will allow management to steal from you.
At what point would you vote "no"?
How bad does the TA have to suck in order for you to tell management "no"?
Pinnacle is in this predicament because of management. Both Delta and Pinnacle.
Why should they get the screaming deal of the century while you suffer?
And why is this acceptable to you? Your selling out yourself and the rest of your brothers by voting yes.
Vote "no". Collect unemployment insurance and find another job. There are plenty out there that will start at $50k. He'll you might even be able to get insurance to buy you a type rating.

You are a fool and clueless on the industry as it sits right now and in the coming year and clueless on the state of our economy and what it takes to make a mortgage payment and support a family.

Dont tell me what to do with my career-worry about your own. Your time will come and when that time comes-vote no and live on your unemployment-as I cannot keep my house on unemployment so kiss my ass

 

[ex j-41]

I'm the fool?
You are selling out the whole industry.
I'm not the one lacking integrity.

 

[Clutch]

Pinnacle does it cheaper

 

[centralpilot]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines?

Imposed rates are not as compelling as voluntary concessions when negotiating or arbitrating compensation at other carriers. This TA will significantly lower the industry average. The worst parts are the 7 year duration, no snap-back provisions, and a penalty from DL if you try to get it back.

 

[bri5150]

I'm the fool?
You are selling out the whole industry.
I'm not the one lacking integrity.

So, in general, regionals are a problem with this industry. So by working at one, you are selling out the industry and lowering the wages of the industry in general (assuming you are at regional), right? Maybe you and everyone at a regional should quit until they all get jobs at mainline? That would prove your integrity and commitment to the profession. Oh wait, you can't just up and quit without a job? That is basically what you are telling him to do.

 

[ex j-41]

I am at a regional like most people. You have to start somewhere.
Now I have yet to vote on a contract in the 9 years I've been flying at one. Rest assured my vote will be a "no" unless it meets my expectations. I can be flexible on some points but there are places that I am very firm on.
Like day pay/duty rigs.
Increased pay for f/o's.
better reserve rules. Much better.

I would rather be unemployed. And yes I am ready to strike if necessary.
Less we get into debt the easier it is to walk.

 

[mesaba13]

Great post Bri! Delta CRJ pay rates are like $136.00/hr so any regional captain not making that much is undercutting mainline and is thus a sellout right? What a bunch of hypocrites!

I figured it out and the fact is you guys are pissed off because we are getting some 900's that you wanted along with some preference from Delta.

 

[imacdog]

No way, you guys are getting the 900 Heavy? LOL

 

[CoATP]

And yes I am ready to strike if necessary.
Less we get into debt the easier it is to walk.

You will never get to strike as a regional pilot. You will PROBABLY never get to strike as a mainline pilot (if you get there)

Learn about the RLA and how the president (and other politicians) will not let you.

Your only course of action is to quit and leave the industry. If you just change airlines you will eventually be in the same boat.

 

[xjhawk]

That person is just doing a lot of chest thumping. Obviously has not done any research or has been through anything like this. This is my second bankruptcy and this is my 4th contract I have been around to see voted. Until there is a way to actually hold those mainline airlines to the fire, and not to let them whipsaw the jobs around this is a lost cause. If you are so unhappy with your career-you quit and show me you have some integrity in holding the line. Because no matter where you are (regional) you are hurting our industry with your pitiful low pay. I am surprised with your attitude you even accepted the job you currently hold! You are too good for it obviously. Oh wait-that is all there is? You need to stay current and have a job till the majors start hiring? Or you need to pay the bills? Welcome to our argument. If we did not accept this, my only option was to go overseas (harder than you think to get one of those jobs and to make the decision to leave my kids) or go to Go Jets and have even worse rules and less opportunity.

Kiss my Ass-mind your own business and shut your trap unless you actually think before you type something about a situation you know nothing about

 

[pipers]

My vote was based solely on my economic and future job search. For you idiots out there.....My vote was to keep a job while I look for a new job. To make my mortgage, support my kids, and find a new job.

So....at what point would you vote no? How much is too little? If the TA was even uglier would you still vote yes?

I just wonder at what point people start to stick up for themselves when being bullied around.

 

[CRJ puppy]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines? How does Pinnacle going under and flooding the market with unemployed pilots help other airlines? These are two possible outcomes if Pinnacle pilots vote down the TA. Resent history has shown that we have very little power indeed. Pay will go up when the demand for pilots is greater than the supply.

Ummmm. The court refused to reject the contract and the company said they wouldn't go back with another request. (Just in case you hadn't heard...)