9E Wins Race to Bottom

[profit]

Your hatred for me is your own self-loathing redirected outward.. I'm sorry. I wish your sketchy company didn't exist either. Mesa, GoJet, now you... Whatever. Vote yes. At least you have a job right?

Oh and a Ph.D. in psychology too? I am honored to be in your presence. Tell me more, please! This is starting to get fun.

 

[Clutch]

Oh and a Ph.D. in psychology too? I am honored to be in your presence. Tell me more, please! This is starting to get fun.

You should vote yes out of spite...

 

[Monster Buck]

Your hatred for me is your own self-loathing redirected outward.. I'm sorry. I wish your sketchy company didn't exist either. Mesa, GoJet, now you... Whatever. Vote yes. At least you have a job right?

With talk like that I'm not so sure Santa's gonna bring you a present.
I looked back at some of your posts history, man you have an anger problem. Did you pick up that line (self-loathing redirected outward) from one of your sessions?

 

[Clutch]

With talk like that I'm not so sure Santa's gonna bring you a present.
I looked back at some of your posts history, man you have an anger problem. Did you pick up that line (self-loathing redirected outward) from one of your sessions?

Nope. I'm as cool as the other side of the pillow that Stuart Scott's lazy eye sleeps on.... dawg


Pinnancle does it cheaper

 

[JustaNumber]

I looked back at some of your posts history, man you have an anger problem. Did you pick up that line (self-loathing redirected outward) from one of your sessions?

You two might want to reconsider mocking those with mental health problems these days, just sayin'....uzi::uzi::uzi:)

 

[Monster Buck]

Merry Christmas to all pilots out there! May your Christmas bonus checks be huge and your skies ahead clear while you fly today!

 

[livin'thesim]

Each individual airline's negotiations are scarcely affected by rates at other airlines.

The "raising and lowering the bar" argument is a specious one at best.

Those who think otherwise do not understand market pricing nor economics in general. The "raise the bar" argument is attractive because it is simple and sounds plausible to those who do not understand how markets work.

 

[PCL_128]

You ignore the fact that this isn't a simple wage market. This is a market modified by collective bargaining under the RLA. And where the NMB is concerned, what other carriers make is a very big deal. The same is true for bankruptcy judges when 1113(c) motions are made.

 

[mayoplane]

Why compare 18yr pay? Whats the % of pilots who stay at regional for 18 yrs? Maybe 12 years, more likely. Is everyone getting paid so much more than 9E?
It doesnt look like much of a difference.

 

[JustaNumber]

Why compare 18yr pay? Whats the % of pilots who stay at regional for 18 yrs? Maybe 12 years, more likely. Is everyone getting paid so much more than 9E?
It doesnt look like much of a difference.

Where have you been for the last decade or two? This isn't 1990 anymore. And the answer is, yes.

 

[centralpilot]

Each individual airline's negotiations are scarcely affected by rates at other airlines.

The "raising and lowering the bar" argument is a specious one at best.

Those who think otherwise do not understand market pricing nor economics in general. The "raise the bar" argument is attractive because it is simple and sounds plausible to those who do not understand how markets work.

Go research "pattern bargaining" and the history of contract negotiations under the RLA and get back to us.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Why compare 18yr pay? Whats the % of pilots who stay at regional for 18 yrs? Maybe 12 years, more likely. Is everyone getting paid so much more than 9E?
It doesnt look like much of a difference.

At least a couple hundred at my airline on year 18+ pay....I'm getting close to that myself. Mainline pilots seem to have no clue what life is like at a large regional. It's not a joke, despite the small airplanes. It is far from perfect, but what job isn't

 

[General Lee]

At least a couple hundred at my airline on year 18+ pay....I'm getting close to that myself. Mainline pilots seem to have no clue what life is like at a large regional. It's not a joke, despite the small airplanes. It is far from perfect, but what job isn't

What???? Thanks to 9-11 and resulting mainline BKs, and age 65, the normal progression of regional pilots was disrupted. That left many regional pilots with no choice but to camp out at lower paying regionals, start families, etc. Now that mainline CEOs are seeing 50 seaters for what they are, very uneconomical with high gas, they are starting to park them in droves. Just because the Regionals got big gains in fleets and upgrades during the mainline BK period, doesn't mean it will occur again anytime soon. Mainline getting 88 717s is a GREAT thing for this industry, taking back flying to mainline and bringing higher wages and up to 1000 new jobs with it. Many of your Regional guys "have no idea what it is like at a legacy", but I hope you find out. It's actually GREAT, but you may have to start over in the right seat again, which some have a problem with unfortunately.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[mayoplane]

9E trying to survive.

OK, I didn't know that many 18 yr pilots at any regional.

Can you educate me on which regional, and out of how many pilots?

Can anybody else share that information about your own airline?

I have a lot of respect for the regional guys and 9E guys work very hard in tough environment. I just don't understand why gang up on these guys, the rates at 12th year is not much different. (I'm still convinced there are more of the 12 year guys than the 18 yr guys.) You may think you get paid SO MUCH more at your regional than 9E pilots, but just remember, for the major guys, ALL regional pilots 'steal jobs from us by working for pennies'. They see no difference between Horizon/AE vs 9E.

My company pays 20+ dollars/hour flying right seat 737 on 5th year than some of the legacy carriers. Should we start denying them jumpseats for lowering standards? Should we start denying jumpseats to all regional pilots? Come on now. Get real.

 

[Freebrd]

That left many regional pilots with no choice but to camp out at lower paying regionals,
cause YOU keep outsourcing work to the regionals putz, like the bigger RJs you just let us operate putz!
Now that mainline CEOs are seeing 50 seaters for what they are, very uneconomical with high gas, they are starting to park them in droves.
good grief Jenny you're a broken record, like we're unaware of this fact putz!
Just because the Regionals got big gains in fleets and upgrades during the mainline BK period, doesn't mean it will occur again anytime soon.
lmao! are you for real putz, how about those additional big RJs you just voted to approve putz!

Bye Bye---General Lee

you are a putz JennyLeigh

 

[Rekks Inbound]

OK, I didn't know that many 18 yr pilots at any regional.

Can you educate me on which regional, and out of how many pilots?

Can anybody else share that information about your own airline?

I have a lot of respect for the regional guys and 9E guys work very hard in tough environment. I just don't understand why gang up on these guys, the rates at 12th year is not much different. (I'm still convinced there are more of the 12 year guys than the 18 yr guys.) You may think you get paid SO MUCH more at your regional than 9E pilots, but just remember, for the major guys, ALL regional pilots 'steal jobs from us by working for pennies'. They see no difference between Horizon/AE vs 9E.

My company pays 20+ dollars/hour flying right seat 737 on 5th year than some of the legacy carriers. Should we start denying them jumpseats for lowering standards? Should we start denying jumpseats to all regional pilots? Come on now. Get real.

Air Wisconsin has around 65 or so (out of 750) that have been here over 20 years. Hell, I've been here over 13, and am currently at $91.25/hr, on a 200!

We are currently in negotiations, and this will not amme things easier, that's for sure!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[IFLYASA]

Pinnacle pilots, vote NO. Stop the BS and don't call the bluff by the big D.

 

[79%N1]

There are 160 pilots at ASA XJet at 20+ years, and 210 at 18 years out of 1700. More than 10%.

 

[BrickTop]

Has this POS passed or is it just a TA?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Voting opens on the 4th and ends the 15th...

 

[COOPERVANE]

A good review of our history. We are playing checkers on a chessboard

http://www.culturewars.com/2011/Pilots.htm

 

[Av8rPHX]

From pubic Infomation:

81 posts and not one comment on this?? You guys are slipping!!!

 

[livin'thesim]

Go research "pattern bargaining" and the history of contract negotiations under the RLA and get back to us.

Go study economics. That will trump pilot-think mythology any day of the week.

The contracts from those days were negotiated in an entirely different economic environment. The so-called "bar" effect appeared to be valid due to the environment at the time.

But pilots still believe in their pet mythologies, because it is easier than going through the difficult work of understanding how a market actually works.

 

[777forever]

Go study economics. That will trump pilot-think mythology any day of the week.

The contracts from those days were negotiated in an entirely different economic environment. The so-called "bar" effect appeared to be valid due to the environment at the time.

But pilots still believe in their pet mythologies, because it is easier than going through the difficult work of understanding how a market actually works.

Well said!

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2

 

[xjhawk]

It will pass 70/30. That is my prediction as there are too many people who need a few key items to get them by until there is hiring elsewhere (not regionals).

The ultra senior pilots (XJ)-will vote yes as they want their spot at Delta in a year or two. Those who think their age is preventing them from going will most likely vote yes just to hold onto a $85k a year job for the next few years before they retire.

The middle seniority and low seniority captains will vote yes for keeping a job until they see something better come along. some are even buying into the "bridge agreement" but those are the higher seniority ones who are not 5-7 years away from that "interview". Good luck if you called in sick too much or any trips to the chiefs office are documented-as Delta will be reviewing all that before you walk into your interview.

Everyone is also looking at the options out there if we close up shop. Starting over means no vacation, year 1 pay and a lot of other contract things we have that such places as Go Jets does not have-we will still have our min day, trip guaranty, better vacation than if we started over etc etc. All you telling us to vote no should have been negotiating a deal to get us or give us our seniority and work rules vacation etc at your airline if we voted no and Pinnacle shut down. Its easy to say vote no and end up on the street when its not your job.

The FO's will vote mainly yes for many of the above reasons and the fact that it is easier to look for a job while we still have a job.

Those that vote no-well I cannot blame them. The TA sucks. Its unbelievable that ALPA national and our MEC are pushing a yes vote-I do think there is a conflict of interest as Delta ALPA knew this was going to happen with the loss of our CRJ 200 fleet-and the more money Delta makes by screwing Pinnacle, the more money Delta pilots can make. Those that vote no are just stubborn and have the resources or lack of mortgage/family to support and can make that brave vote of no. Hell I wish I had a sugar mama to support me while I voted no and became jobless.

Until ALPA has equal representation or there is a method for supporting pilots who draw a line in the sand-guess what? Shut up with telling me how to vote for my career. My vote was based solely on my economic and future job search. For you idiots out there.....My vote was to keep a job while I look for a new job. To make my mortgage, support my kids, and find a new job.

 

[ex j-41]

At some point you have to determine what you are worth and how much you will allow management to steal from you.
At what point would you vote "no"?
How bad does the TA have to suck in order for you to tell management "no"?
Pinnacle is in this predicament because of management. Both Delta and Pinnacle.
Why should they get the screaming deal of the century while you suffer?
And why is this acceptable to you? Your selling out yourself and the rest of your brothers by voting yes.
Vote "no". Collect unemployment insurance and find another job. There are plenty out there that will start at $50k. He'll you might even be able to get insurance to buy you a type rating.

 

[bri5150]

Alpa should pay the "signing bonus" for this to be voted down. This ta would not pass and alpa would have held the line.

 

[Theoden]

How does the court rejecting Pinnacle's contract help pilots at other airlines? How does Pinnacle going under and flooding the market with unemployed pilots help other airlines? These are two possible outcomes if Pinnacle pilots vote down the TA. Resent history has shown that we have very little power indeed. Pay will go up when the demand for pilots is greater than the supply.

 

[xjhawk]

At some point you have to determine what you are worth and how much you will allow management to steal from you.
At what point would you vote "no"?
How bad does the TA have to suck in order for you to tell management "no"?
Pinnacle is in this predicament because of management. Both Delta and Pinnacle.
Why should they get the screaming deal of the century while you suffer?
And why is this acceptable to you? Your selling out yourself and the rest of your brothers by voting yes.
Vote "no". Collect unemployment insurance and find another job. There are plenty out there that will start at $50k. He'll you might even be able to get insurance to buy you a type rating.

You are a fool and clueless on the industry as it sits right now and in the coming year and clueless on the state of our economy and what it takes to make a mortgage payment and support a family.

Dont tell me what to do with my career-worry about your own. Your time will come and when that time comes-vote no and live on your unemployment-as I cannot keep my house on unemployment so kiss my ass

 

[ex j-41]

I'm the fool?
You are selling out the whole industry.
I'm not the one lacking integrity.