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737 Crash Near Athens

FN FAL

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Ask the people in the chasm what they think about automation in the cockpit.
 

Spooky 1

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FN FAL said:
Ask the people in the chasm what they think about automation in the cockpit.
Can you expand on this staement? Not sure what automation has to do with this accident at this point at least.
 

FN FAL

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Spooky 1 said:
Can you expand on this staement? Not sure what automation has to do with this accident at this point at least.
After 9/11, there was a great article on "secure digital data uplink". It would allow ground controllers the ability to take control over a stricken airliner from a secure location on the ground. Who would be the controllers? I don't know, but the techology exists to implement secure digital data uplink, it would have saved thousands of lives on 9/11, it would have saved lives here as well.
 

mattpilot

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In that case i guess we as pilots should just stay home and let the computer do its job. Kinda like those automated subway trains.

:rolleyes:
 

FN FAL

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mattpilot said:
In that case i guess we as pilots should just stay home and let the computer do its job. Kinda like those automated subway trains.

:rolleyes:
Secure digital data uplink doesn't replace pilots or jobs...
 

Spooky 1

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FN FAL said:
After 9/11, there was a great article on "secure digital data uplink". It would allow ground controllers the ability to take control over a stricken airliner from a secure location on the ground. Who would be the controllers? I don't know, but the techology exists to implement secure digital data uplink, it would have saved thousands of lives on 9/11, it would have saved lives here as well.
Okay I see where you are coming from. I supposed the technology is possibel and might in fact be there, but I am not sure this would have changed the outcome of 911 as I believe the hijackers were in control of the aircraft right up to impact. In the case of the UAL in PA, I still don't think the outcome would have been any different.

As for this B737 accident, one can only speculate as to the cause and other factors that were to blame. Subtle decompressions are extremely rare and even in the oldest versions of the B737 there are plenty of warning systems to make the crew aware of the situation. On the other hand if one were to ignore all of these signals, then that is beyond comprehension and one could only speculate as to the reasons.
 

EagleRJ

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FN FAL said:
After 9/11, there was a great article on "secure digital data uplink". It would allow ground controllers the ability to take control over a stricken airliner from a secure location on the ground. Who would be the controllers? I don't know, but the techology exists to implement secure digital data uplink, it would have saved thousands of lives on 9/11, it would have saved lives here as well.
So could you MEL the pilots if they were sick or on strike?

Would this let me work from home? I already have a joystick for my computer!

Re: saving lives on 9/11. You could also argue that instead of crashing four aircraft, this would let terrorists hack the system and crash hundreds instead. There's no such thing as a secure data link, and anything that removes pilots from the top of the chain of authority in the cockpit is a bad idea.
 

EagleRJ

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Something strange about this accident is the fact that the tail section survived intact.

That implies something less than a high-speed, high-angle impact after the aircraft either ran out of fuel or went out of control with no one flying. It suggests a slower speed at the time of impact, in more level flight.
If that's the case, why didn't the aircraft spend enough time below 15,000' or so for the pilots to regain consciousness and regain control?

Something's strange here....
 

FN FAL

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EagleRJ said:
So could you MEL the pilots if they were sick or on strike?

Would this let me work from home? I already have a joystick for my computer!

Re: saving lives on 9/11. You could also argue that instead of crashing four aircraft, this would let terrorists hack the system and crash hundreds instead. There's no such thing as a secure data link, and anything that removes pilots from the top of the chain of authority in the cockpit is a bad idea.
Secure digital data uplink would not usurp the pilot's authority if they are incapacitated.

And to address your comment on hacking? Why bother with airliners, why not just simply hack into DOD and launch the missiles?
 

LowlyPropCapt

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EagleRJ said:
Something strange about this accident is the fact that the tail section survived intact.

That implies something less than a high-speed, high-angle impact after the aircraft either ran out of fuel or went out of control with no one flying. It suggests a slower speed at the time of impact, in more level flight.
If that's the case, why didn't the aircraft spend enough time below 15,000' or so for the pilots to regain consciousness and regain control?

Something's strange here....
I agree something isn't right here. How would the passengers have seen the pilot turn blue? Was the PIC prancing up and down the aisle in the midst of hypoxic euphoria? I sort of doubt it.

There are plenty of ways to ventilate a 737 at low altitude. A slow decompression would have to involve a multitude of factors... The chances of them all coming together seem astronomical.

Very wierd.
 

air_chompers

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FN FAL said:
Secure digital data uplink would not usurp the pilot's authority if they are incapacitated.

And to address your comment on hacking? Why bother with airliners, why not just simply hack into DOD and launch the missiles?
Cuz' computers dont control ze missiles, Everything is manual, and It would be hard as heck to change zat.
 

AA717driver

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I think we may have a common link to most other airline disasters here. The news report referenced "the pilot". Pilot incapacitation is a huge problem on those multitudes of single pilot airliners. This is obviously an unsafe situation.

We need to write our congressmen and demand a requirement for more than one pilot on airlines...TC
 

mattpilot

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AA717driver said:
I think we may have a common link to most other airline disasters here. The news report referenced "the pilot". Pilot incapacitation is a huge problem on those multitudes of single pilot airliners. This is obviously an unsafe situation.

We need to write our congressmen and demand a requirement for more than one pilot on airlines...TC
Do those so called "co-pilots-who-really-aren't-pilots" have to be typed under your proposed system?
 

SIG600

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FN FAL said:
After 9/11, there was a great article on "secure digital data uplink". It would allow ground controllers the ability to take control over a stricken airliner from a secure location on the ground. Who would be the controllers? I don't know, but the techology exists to implement secure digital data uplink, it would have saved thousands of lives on 9/11, it would have saved lives here as well.
"Preflight item number one... pull circuit breakers to digital over ride thingie... Check"
 

SIG600

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FN FAL said:
Secure digital data uplink would not usurp the pilot's authority if they are incapacitated.

And to address your comment on hacking? Why bother with airliners, why not just simply hack into DOD and launch the missiles?
DOD computers get attacked every day... and it dosen't exactly work that way. You can't launch a Tomahawk from a CG from your living room...
 

9GClub

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LowlyPropCapt said:
I agree something isn't right here. How would the passengers have seen the pilot turn blue? Was the PIC prancing up and down the aisle in the midst of hypoxic euphoria? I sort of doubt it.

There are plenty of ways to ventilate a 737 at low altitude. A slow decompression would have to involve a multitude of factors... The chances of them all coming together seem astronomical.

Very wierd.
At least one source suggested that the Greek Vipers only saw one pilot in the cockpit, which implies that the other one may have indeed been prancing in the aisle.....

It also seems like a few technically apt (or at least curious) passengers-- if they weren't incapacitated-- would have checked out the cockpit to see what was up. If I was conscious I'd at least try to save the day with a glorious last-ditch 1+ G CFIT-avoidance maneuver.......
 

Dangerkitty

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9GClub said:
If I was conscious I'd at least try to save the day with a glorious last-ditch 1+ G CFIT-avoidance maneuver.......
After your 757 T/O comment that caused so much ridicule I thought that you wouldn't embarrass yourself by making it again. Yet I am wrong.

Do you not realize that you are pulling 1G right now as you sit at your computer?
 

TexPilot

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Danger, if your going to get technical about it.... did he not say "1+" G?

Tex
 
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