2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[Flopgut]

After signing the 70 seat side letter Paul W said "I've saved the A fund". He didn't say he saved United. CAL had no shortage of pilots who were thinking of themselves, but the leadership didn't let that happen. Two BKs and all the mergers they had already been thru is what I guess made the difference between how these two pilot groups reacted. Ours was a coordinated effort to not throw pilots (at either end of the list) into the garbage and we all participated.

 

[eaglesview]

After signing the 70 seat side letter Paul W said "I've saved the A fund". He didn't say he saved United. CAL had no shortage of pilots who were thinking of themselves, but the leadership didn't let that happen. Two BKs and all the mergers they had already been thru is what I guess made the difference between how these two pilot groups reacted. Ours was a coordinated effort to not throw pilots (at either end of the list) into the garbage and we all participated.

I want to live in your world were everything is shiny and new and "me and my fellow pilots have done nothing wrong." I admire sooo much how the entire CAL would NEVER think of there own personal needs in front of others. Next time you go to work actually take off your rose colored glasses and look around. How is that you can only find fault on one side???

Oh yeah go ahead and send the message about frontier, Paul W. signing the letter concerning 70 seaters. Go ahead.... Stick your head in the sand when it comes to CAL pilots, there willingness to basically fly a contract that had no work rules, Captains flying as f/o's. (try finding an example of that on the UAL side) Your getting very predictable. Enjoy them glasses.

 

[eaglesview]

So you think it will all be one nice package delivered by your YES vote once SLI plops out? You think your simple majority will 'dismantle' all concerns of former CAL members? You think the trip lose queens on both sides aren't going to engage in the nastiest forms of skullduggery possible in order to keep their 9-3 jobs? All ready a three month delay from what mother ALPA told us for the SLI. If I didn't know the issues I would admire your optimism, but one can also argue it looks more like blind stupidity.

What??

 

[Flopgut]

I want to live in your world were everything is shiny and new and "me and my fellow pilots have done nothing wrong." I admire sooo much how the entire CAL would NEVER think of there own personal needs in front of others. Next time you go to work actually take off your rose colored glasses and look around. How is that you can only find fault on one side???

Oh yeah go ahead and send the message about frontier, Paul W. signing the letter concerning 70 seaters. Go ahead.... Stick your head in the sand when it comes to CAL pilots, there willingness to basically fly a contract that had no work rules, Captains flying as f/o's. (try finding an example of that on the UAL side) Your getting very predictable. Enjoy them glasses.

Day 1 at CAL, VP Flt Ops C.D. Mclean walks into class and welcomes us with "Welcome aboard! I'll tell you all the same thing they told me on my first day at Peidmont. Welcome to the last airline job you'll ever have". We all laughed, but that was very much the attitude we were steered toward. The remark was deliberately opposite of what everyone knew to be the welcome a pilot got to DAL or UAL. Not that a merger was inevitable, or that we were going to have a lesser career, but that change and adversity were inevitable. So most CAL pilots felt like we shouldn't just coast. You guys all slapped yourselves on the back, welcomed/congratulated yourselves as millionaires, and stared down your nose at the rest of the industry like your crap didn't stink. When the worst happened, and you needed to circle the wagons, you all screwed it up in a desperate panic. AMR and DAL, and well, everyone handled it better than you guys. You all turned on each other like a band of theives. CAL was not perfect in many other areas, but regarding scope and job protection efforts, in the face of dire corporate circumstances, we did it right.

 

[eaglesview]

Day 1 at CAL, VP Flt Ops C.D. Mclean walks into class and welcomes us with "Welcome aboard! I'll tell you all the same thing they told me on my first day at Peidmont. Welcome to the last airline job you'll ever have". We all laughed, but that was very much the attitude we were steered toward. The remark was deliberately opposite of what everyone knew to be the welcome a pilot got to DAL or UAL. Not that a merger was inevitable, or that we were going to have a lesser career, but that change and adversity were inevitable. So most CAL pilots felt like we shouldn't just coast. You guys all slapped yourselves on the back, welcomed/congratulated yourselves as millionaires, and stared down your nose at the rest of the industry like your crap didn't stink. When the worst happened, and you needed to circle the wagons, you all screwed it up in a desperate panic. AMR and DAL, and well, everyone handled it better than you guys. You all turned on each other like a band of theives. CAL was not perfect in many other areas, but regarding scope and job protection efforts, in the face of dire corporate circumstances, we did it right.

When you have struck, walked away from a job and watched it vanish, then you can lecture me about change and adversity. What Texas air group do you think benefitted the most from that?

 

[nimtz]

What??

Not a hard concept. Just like CP's many ALPA leaders don't like to fly the line esp when the association pays them 90+ hours. Throw in weekends off and that's quite a deal esp when your junior on your equipment. Who knows maybe a position in Herndon or Willis Tower awaits the truly skilled! Your side is as polluted with them as ours. Let the games begin.

 

[eaglesview]

Not a hard concept. Just like CP's many ALPA leaders don't like to fly the line esp when the association pays them 90+ hours. Throw in weekends off and that's quite a deal esp when your junior on your equipment. Who knows maybe a position in Herndon or Willis Tower awaits the truly skilled! Your side is as polluted with them as ours. Let the games begin.

Got it, won't argue that point.

 

[flygirlqt]

Your wasting you're time. (he loves it when you missspell things cause then he gets to beat his chest and stroke he's own eggo)

Just a tool trying to justify his existance.

Funny! I’m not sure if your sophomoric attempt with the gender comment or you’re (note proper use of you’re and your in this post) continuing to spell like an elementary school student is supposed to get me riled. Newsflash Doctor, it is not.

I am trying to picture you. You’re probably one of the guys my Dad (rEAL) thought how badly Eastern was scraping the bottom of the barrel for pilots in the last rounds of prestrike hiring.

However, just as a woman my visual is here of you: Short, paunchy stomach, balding, bad attitude, pilots just beat feet for the hotel door on the over night, a testicular backlog from your award winning personality is just the icing on the cake. I’m pretty close right? It certainly would explain a lot of your posts.

 

[flygirlqt]

With a reply like that its no wonder you opted for a different career. If you were half as smart as you think you are you wouldn't have to "qualify" yourself, get over yourself. Pretty easy to get under you skin...not very lawyerish. I am perfectly happy with my career and hobby of slamming pompass arrogant lawyers. I am not happy about the contract that many CAL pilots also voted for (try and remember some basic math), but am real happy about CAL MEC being within months of ceasing. This cruddy contract is well worth that alone!

With the growing arrogance and sense of entitlement shown by ilk like yourself in the industry, it was a given where the “career” of an airline pilot was headed. I’m damned proud of what I accomplished and I have no problem calling people out with stupid comments that have no basis in fact with the law. I also have an allegiance to my former L CAL brothers and sisters and after reading some of the bile on here I will speak my mind.

But your ignorance shows through (again) as I was qualifying my answer to your fellow United tool. As usual, either through being dense or just plain stupid, people like you want to disregard the facts and attack those with a knowledge base.

You slammed me? Comical. Under my skin? Even more comical. Alas the typical brain surgeon mentality shows through yet again by being so predictable in your thinking of how people view (or are concerned with) your own comments and attitude.

I am supposed to try basic math is that right? Do you have the breakdown and voting figures of pilots from either LCAL or LUAL that voted? That’s right you don’t since ALPA does not release the actual numbers. Your perceived fear and delusional conspiracies have already turned into a weak justification to vote in a substandard contract.

The SLI award will be a long overdue and necessary attitude adjustment for some L UAL pilots. If only from the fact that your warped sense of entitlement will be forever stamped with an award just about where you are now on a relative basis.

Where were you in May of 2010? So enjoy that gear handle with your left hand and the bitterness it will bring for many years to come.

 

[sleeves]

Well, he told me to tell you that their scope works for them as they don't feed a huge international widebody fleet.

When terrorists chose to attack our country and the biggest and best US carriers with horrible outcomes; your right UAL crews followed by saving their company but lost 50 seat scope, we all get it occurred before CAL lost its scope in the merger. But where you championing the scope fight at your flow through commuter job when all this went down? If so, You are the man!

Yes I was a one list supporter from day one. It gives power to the pilots that is why MGT. wants to break off as much flying as possible. The fact that SWA does not feed widebody's has little to do with their scope. They only want SWA employees handling their customers.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Yes I was a one list supporter from day one. It gives power to the pilots that is why MGT. wants to break off as much flying as possible. The fact that SWA does not feed widebody's has little to do with their scope. They only want SWA employees handling their customers.

SWA pilots fought hard and via mediation stopped their mgmt from having West Jet carry their pax

 

[ChrisJT6]

With the growing arrogance and sense of entitlement shown by ilk like yourself in the industry, it was a given where the “career” of an airline pilot was headed. I’m damned proud of what I accomplished and I have no problem calling people out with stupid comments that have no basis in fact with the law. I also have an allegiance to my former L CAL brothers and sisters and after reading some of the bile on here I will speak my mind.

But your ignorance shows through (again) as I was qualifying my answer to your fellow United tool. As usual, either through being dense or just plain stupid, people like you want to disregard the facts and attack those with a knowledge base.

You slammed me? Comical. Under my skin? Even more comical. Alas the typical brain surgeon mentality shows through yet again by being so predictable in your thinking of how people view (or are concerned with) your own comments and attitude.

I am supposed to try basic math is that right? Do you have the breakdown and voting figures of pilots from either LCAL or LUAL that voted? That’s right you don’t since ALPA does not release the actual numbers. Your perceived fear and delusional conspiracies have already turned into a weak justification to vote in a substandard contract.

The SLI award will be a long overdue and necessary attitude adjustment for some L UAL pilots. If only from the fact that your warped sense of entitlement will be forever stamped with an award just about where you are now on a relative basis.

Where were you in May of 2010? So enjoy that gear handle with your left hand and the bitterness it will bring for many years to come.

Its clear to all how "proud" you are of yourself ..go ahead and keep stating so while calling me arrogant. It make you sound brilliant and another example of wasted money / education.

Clue: there isn't enough pilots at sUAL to make up 67% of the total pilot group...sorry cant dumb down the math anymore for you.

Am not bitter or surprised the lCAL pilots are good with being on the mgmt side of a hugely successful whipsaw. Unlike you, I am not asking for various forms of SLI manipulation so I can go ahead of someone I shouldn't. You say tool...I say special qual Ouche Bag! If it makes you feel good to bash some on the bottom of the list, good on you!

Hopefully you are a qt because you sure are a dummy!

 

[sniper]

not a hard concept. Just like cp's many alpa leaders don't like to fly the line esp when the association pays them 90+ hours. Throw in weekends off and that's quite a deal esp when your junior on your equipment. Who knows maybe a position in herndon or willis tower awaits the truly skilled! Your side is as polluted with them as ours. Let the games begin.

you could volunteer the door is open

 

[RT8VA]

As an 06 Hire who was within 20 numbers of 737 captain in EWR there are just over 900 total FO's senior to me system wide. Most of those have bypassed captain because of various reasons, including quality of life international flying a desire to remain senior and quite a few I have missed. Either way the word junior always comes up for our 05 and 06 hires but there is less then 400 FO's that were hired before 2005 which means the only metric that the FO's from the 05 06 hire time would be considered junior is by a date of hire. From a relative seniority point or the type of flying and equipment being flown by this group junior is not really a valid term.

Every side will attempt to make it look like they should have the upper hand and that is their job, we can scream all we want about our opinions but they dont really matter. I was a 2001 hire at Northwest but instead of waiting to be recalled I went and found a job with what turned out to be a good progression and when I received an offer to go to NWA I chose to stay here instead. That's how this career works you make choices you hope your right and you find out how it works out after because hind sight is always 20/20. If this list turns out to be similar to recent lists with a relative position adjusted for various factors the forward progression will be slowed for every one on this side, with a little luck the age wont change again which is the only reason every one hired in 05 and 06 are not already captains.

I am sure this rambled a bit but knowledge of the current position instead of just some hire date comes as a great suprise to many L-UAL active and furloughed pilots because most weren't paying attention to what was going on at L-CAL before the merger rumors and eventual merger. Senior and Junior are only defined by which metric you choose to measure them by.

 

[BID]

As an 06 Hire who was within 20 numbers of 737 captain in EWR there are just over 900 total FO's senior to me system wide. Most of those have bypassed captain because of various reasons, including quality of life international flying a desire to remain senior and quite a few I have missed. Either way the word junior always comes up for our 05 and 06 hires but there is less then 400 FO's that were hired before 2005 which means the only metric that the FO's from the 05 06 hire time would be considered junior is by a date of hire. From a relative seniority point or the type of flying and equipment being flown by this group junior is not really a valid term.

Every side will attempt to make it look like they should have the upper hand and that is their job, we can scream all we want about our opinions but they dont really matter. I was a 2001 hire at Northwest but instead of waiting to be recalled I went and found a job with what turned out to be a good progression and when I received an offer to go to NWA I chose to stay here instead. That's how this career works you make choices you hope your right and you find out how it works out after because hind sight is always 20/20. If this list turns out to be similar to recent lists with a relative position adjusted for various factors the forward progression will be slowed for every one on this side, with a little luck the age wont change again which is the only reason every one hired in 05 and 06 are not already captains.

I am sure this rambled a bit but knowledge of the current position instead of just some hire date comes as a great suprise to many L-UAL active and furloughed pilots because most weren't paying attention to what was going on at L-CAL before the merger rumors and eventual merger. Senior and Junior are only defined by which metric you choose to measure them by.

Well said.

A good buddy of mine tried to convince me to apply at Delta. At the time, i had approxiamtely 900 pilots below me. Advancement and progression at Continental was just too good to throw away, I politely declined my friends's assistance and stuck it out at Continental.

I don't want to pay the price for those that gambled on United.

 

[flygirlqt]

Its clear to all how "proud" you are of yourself ..go ahead and keep stating so while calling me arrogant. It make you sound brilliant and another example of wasted money / education.

Clue: there isn't enough pilots at sUAL to make up 67% of the total pilot group...sorry cant dumb down the math anymore for you.

Am not bitter or surprised the lCAL pilots are good with being on the mgmt side of a hugely successful whipsaw. Unlike you, I am not asking for various forms of SLI manipulation so I can go ahead of someone I shouldn't. You say tool...I say special qual Ouche Bag! If it makes you feel good to bash some on the bottom of the list, good on you!

Hopefully you are a qt because you sure are a dummy!

My you are a dense one but alas and again you have missed the point. Wasted money on an education? Do you want to compare income tax statements? How about quality of life? Been there done that pal, no comparison.

I never implied that LUAL was solely responsible for the contract so take your 67% and sooth yourself that you now belong to that elite spineless club. I did insinuate the fire and brimstone loud mouths at L UAL, like yourself, capitulated and folded like a cheap suit. It is funny listening now to the justifications spewing forth from yes voters on here. In essence your life and career Chris is just one big justification after another correct?

“I say special qual Ouche Bag!” I have no idea what you are ranting about here as in context to an SLI. Whipsaw? Laughable and once again your delusions and paranoia leech through. Good thing you voted yes to stop that “whipsaw”. How many new Captain positions were on the last L CAL bid? Remember those airplanes were slated for delivery already before the merger. Poor thing, I know the truth really dents that hollow sense of self worth and bloated entitlement you have.

Dummy, nah…credentials speak for itself. I could tell you I graduated in the top 3% of my class at GU but I don’t want to make any possible reference to your manhood length.

 

[flygirlqt]

As an 06 Hire who was within 20 numbers of 737 captain in EWR there are just over 900 total FO's senior to me system wide. Most of those have bypassed captain because of various reasons, including quality of life international flying a desire to remain senior and quite a few I have missed. Either way the word junior always comes up for our 05 and 06 hires but there is less then 400 FO's that were hired before 2005 which means the only metric that the FO's from the 05 06 hire time would be considered junior is by a date of hire. From a relative seniority point or the type of flying and equipment being flown by this group junior is not really a valid term.

Every side will attempt to make it look like they should have the upper hand and that is their job, we can scream all we want about our opinions but they dont really matter. I was a 2001 hire at Northwest but instead of waiting to be recalled I went and found a job with what turned out to be a good progression and when I received an offer to go to NWA I chose to stay here instead. That's how this career works you make choices you hope your right and you find out how it works out after because hind sight is always 20/20. If this list turns out to be similar to recent lists with a relative position adjusted for various factors the forward progression will be slowed for every one on this side, with a little luck the age wont change again which is the only reason every one hired in 05 and 06 are not already captains.

I am sure this rambled a bit but knowledge of the current position instead of just some hire date comes as a great suprise to many L-UAL active and furloughed pilots because most weren't paying attention to what was going on at L-CAL before the merger rumors and eventual merger. Senior and Junior are only defined by which metric you choose to measure them by.

Perfectly written and my belief as well the award will be very close in what you stated in relative position between the two lists.

 

[ChrisJT6]

My you are a dense one but alas and again you have missed the point. Wasted money on an education? Do you want to compare income tax statements? How about quality of life? Been there done that pal, no comparison.

I never implied that LUAL was solely responsible for the contract so take your 67% and sooth yourself that you now belong to that elite spineless club. I did insinuate the fire and brimstone loud mouths at L UAL, like yourself, capitulated and folded like a cheap suit. It is funny listening now to the justifications spewing forth from yes voters on here. In essence your life and career Chris is just one big justification after another correct?

“I say special qual Ouche Bag!” I have no idea what you are ranting about here as in context to an SLI. Whipsaw? Laughable and once again your delusions and paranoia leech through. Good thing you voted yes to stop that “whipsaw”. How many new Captain positions were on the last L CAL bid? Remember those airplanes were slated for delivery already before the merger. Poor thing, I know the truth really dents that hollow sense of self worth and bloated entitlement you have.

Dummy, nah…credentials speak for itself. I could tell you I graduated in the top 3% of my class at GU but I don’t want to make any possible reference to your manhood length.

We clearly have different priorities. You never would have chose my path and sure as heck would not choose your or Jeff's path. Many CEOs with fancy degrees and opinions of themselves isn't really working out so well for our companies and country. I would see the value in comparing W-2s if being a rich ahole was also my goal. Please look elsewhere to find someone who is impressed with your credentials as we translate them way differently when you present them in your ******************************ouche bag fashion. I would rather drag my manhood across the ramp than have anything to do with a ******************************ouche bag like you! Who says "alas" anymore...I rest my case and will leave you for someone else to have their way with you.
Beat it!

 

[sleeves]

SWA pilots fought hard and via mediation stopped their mgmt from having West Jet carry their pax

And United pilots gave it away along with the careers of the pilots that got furloughed.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Yes I was a one list supporter from day one. It gives power to the pilots that is why MGT. wants to break off as much flying as possible. The fact that SWA does not feed widebody's has little to do with their scope. They only want SWA employees handling their customers.

If "they" is SWA mgmt...well you are wrong, they tried and will try again to outsource to Westjet ect as they continue to evolve into just another domestic carrier.