2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[Chairman]

Ok. I was a furloughee in 2003 and bypassed 1 recall and then when they got to me again I had to either return to UAL or resign.....Has something changed for recalls?? 10 year recall was not an option back then....

This was changes in 2008 as part of the furlough agreement as many guys left good jobs when forced to come back. You have 10 years from date of furlough to come back after giving the company 30 days notice once you have bypassed. This assumes they are hiring or recalling. If not you drop off the list.

Chairman

 

[ChrisJT6]

I'd really like an answer to this from a sUAL pilot. You all love to compare your DOH to our bids, BESs and staffing numbers. I listen as you do your Jepps and marvel at all the new destinations (while I'm adding plates to rustbelt sh!tholes). So what's the next bid going to look like guys? Spread some cheer, if you can. Are there any pleasant surprises in the L-UAL system?



Yeah, I know I'm being a bit dramatic about having to go to BUF. I realize that is a stupid complaint.



They got parked for some/any deal. "This" turned out to be the deal that happened, but you were being groomed for ANY eventual merger. You can't project the negative effects onto anybody but yourselves. In fact, you're damn lucky it was us and you ended up wrecking our scope clause. How about by way of apology, you try a little harder to contain your enthusiasm when you look at our bids? Or, explain to us what we can look forward to taking a crack at?

Prior to sUAL parking the entire 737 fleet, UAX was almost contractually maxed...it increased ~1.3% to max following.

Let me get this straight...sCAL pilots have been feeding another ALPA carriers WB fleet (sUAL) for over 3 years and you want them to thank you?

Our WB fleet dwarfs sCALs and was projected to continue with double the WB orders (also 100 likely options)...yeah, you're right, we had nothing to bring to the table presently or in the future. Who carries more pax across the Pacific than sUAL? If being a guppy CAPT on rsv to Mexico is the Apex of a Major Airline Pilot career...then you're right again, we brought nothing new to the table.

Like an previous poster, I too hope you are representing your side in the SLI with your same rationale and have to explain all the obvious manipulations of the process.

I will not apologize but show my level of thanks following SLI by casting my vote for new sUAL reps to run the show.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Prior to sUAL parking the entire 737 fleet, UAX was almost contractually maxed...it increased ~1.3% to max following.

Let me get this straight...sCAL pilots have been feeding another ALPA carriers WB fleet (sUAL) for over 3 years and you want them to thank you?

Our WB fleet dwarfs sCALs and was projected to continue with double the WB orders (also 100 likely options)...yeah, you're right, we had nothing to bring to the table presently or in the future. Who carries more pax across the Pacific than sUAL? If being a guppy CAPT on rsv to Mexico is the Apex of a Major Airline Pilot career...then you're right again, we brought nothing new to the table.

Like an previous poster, I too hope you are representing your side in the SLI with your same rationale and have to explain all the obvious manipulations of the process.

I will not apologize but show my level of thanks following SLI by casting my vote for new sUAL reps to run the show.

Would only be appropriate for the thanks. If you've had us feed you for 3 years, isn't it obvious that your domestic fleet was completely inadequate before we came along? Don't believe it; why the influx of 737's all across your entire network? I know, the whole conspiracy thing to park your aircraft and order ours. Did your MEC ever find out who shot JFK, too?

Most of us looked forward to thanking your pilot group for the new contract we were looking to achieve with staunch unionists and all we got was more of the same sUAL has been living with for more than a decade.

Who carries more paxs across the Atlantic, sUAL or sCAL? Are we really going to start a johnson contest? Assumptions on WB orders are just.

I do enjoy reading your inflated ego of yourself. It makes me realize that sUAL pilots still reminisce about the late 90's way too much and really need to take a step back and realize your not all that.

I hope your new reps do better than the ones that voted for C12. I predict a gain of 2-5% for sCAL pilots but opinions are like elbows....we all have two.

 

[Captain X]

I wanna know who we're merging with next. I mean after all, they're turning our sUAL 757's in to beer cans...so we must be "right-sizing" for something. Right? Right?

 

[Flopgut]

I will not apologize but show my level of thanks following SLI by casting my vote for new sUAL reps to run the show.

Well they've done a real good job so far...

Seriously, I simply want to try and get some insight into what the next bid will look like. I'm not familiar with how the new system works. Everyone has seen how CAL has funtioned up to this point. I get all kinds of questions about IAH or Guam, or any/all kinds CAL related things. I'm not sure 737 CA is the "Apex" of a career, but it sure as hell is something half the sUAL pilots can't wait to get their hands on! Trust me, they aren't shy at about it. The only mystery at this point is what will be available to sCAL pilots out of this deal.

I finally took a glance at the sUAL staffing data, and initially I was encouraged. But that was pretty short lived. I don't think you guys got right sized for a merger. Not at all. I'm afraid sUAL only functions to shrink, park airplanes and furlough pilots. Can you deny that? Or offer a competeing opinion? If you can, let's hear it?

 

[MECH]

Not to rain on your parade. But 737 CA is hardly the APEX of pilots career at L-CAL. We have 2005 hires that are holding 757/767 Captain in EWR.

What is a 1998 hire at L-UAL holding?

As far as WB. Yes you have a lot of WB. But they are old and have not been kept up. After the merger 100's of millions of dollars have been spent and will continue to be spent upgrading these aircraft. That includes GPS, FANS, winglets, HF datalink, Sat phones, FMC version upgrade from 5 to 9, engine thrust upgrade, RNAV RNP requirements, plus alot of other minor changes.

This is money that could have been used to fund our contract. But no we had to bring L-UAL into the twentieth century.

My point of all this is that. Neither group wanted this merger, but we are in it together. There is no point, pointing at one another saying well we had this! Or we bring this to the table! We are much better off shaking hands and trying to flight the real enemy.

NOTE: the enemy is not our fellow pilots.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Would only be appropriate for the thanks. If you've had us feed you for 3 years, isn't it obvious that your domestic fleet was completely inadequate before we came along? Don't believe it; why the influx of 737's all across your entire network? I know, the whole conspiracy thing to park your aircraft and order ours. Did your MEC ever find out who shot JFK, too?

Most of us looked forward to thanking your pilot group for the new contract we were looking to achieve with staunch unionists and all we got was more of the same sUAL has been living with for more than a decade.

Who carries more paxs across the Atlantic, sUAL or sCAL? Are we really going to start a johnson contest? Assumptions on WB orders are just.

I do enjoy reading your inflated ego of yourself. It makes me realize that sUAL pilots still reminisce about the late 90's way too much and really need to take a step back and realize your not all that.

I hope your new reps do better than the ones that voted for C12. I predict a gain of 2-5% for sCAL pilots but opinions are like elbows....we all have two.

I was unarrogantly responding to the poster stating that sUAL didn't bring anything to the table. I never said they same about sCAL.

I was in the military in the 90s so not sure what you're talking about other than you have a giant chip on your shoulder and are super worried about the SLI.

Right, sUAL should have allowed CAL MEC and UCH to keep dragging this on while we shrunk and CAL grew. The contract blows (best one CAL crews ever had) but at least it kills CAL MEC and stops the bleeding. Why do you think UCH management preferred to do more business with CAL MEC/Crews, why?

Oh yeah, sUAL also flies across the Atlantic from 5 hubs in WB fleets(not a ton of 757s that pay guppy rates)..you're level of intellect no doubt leaves you assuming everyone else is arrogant. Secure your Chip light and maybe the clues will come your way.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Not to rain on your parade. But 737 CA is hardly the APEX of pilots career at L-CAL. We have 2005 hires that are holding 757/767 Captain in EWR.

What is a 1998 hire at L-UAL holding?

As far as WB. Yes you have a lot of WB. But they are old and have not been kept up. After the merger 100's of millions of dollars have been spent and will continue to be spent upgrading these aircraft. That includes GPS, FANS, winglets, HF datalink, Sat phones, FMC version upgrade from 5 to 9, engine thrust upgrade, RNAV RNP requirements, plus alot of other minor changes.

This is money that could have been used to fund our contract. But no we had to bring L-UAL into the twentieth century.

My point of all this is that. Neither group wanted this merger, but we are in it together. There is no point, pointing at one another saying well we had this! Or we bring this to the table! We are much better off shaking hands and trying to flight the real enemy.

NOTE: the enemy is not our fellow pilots.

I agree...not trying initiate eye poking just respond to ridiculous assumptions. Also, if sUALs fleets were in such bad shape, I ask you to explain how sUAL was #1 in on time arrivals for the 2 years prior to the merger? Blaming pre-merger sUAL for UCHs mgmts screw ups post merger reminds me of Obama continuing to blame Bush years later for every no show/delivery failure over the last term.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Well they've done a real good job so far...

Seriously, I simply want to try and get some insight into what the next bid will look like. I'm not familiar with how the new system works. Everyone has seen how CAL has funtioned up to this point. I get all kinds of questions about IAH or Guam, or any/all kinds CAL related things. I'm not sure 737 CA is the "Apex" of a career, but it sure as hell is something half the sUAL pilots can't wait to get their hands on! Trust me, they aren't shy at about it. The only mystery at this point is what will be available to sCAL pilots out of this deal.

I finally took a glance at the sUAL staffing data, and initially I was encouraged. But that was pretty short lived. I don't think you guys got right sized for a merger. Not at all. I'm afraid sUAL only functions to shrink, park airplanes and furlough pilots. Can you deny that? Or offer a competeing opinion? If you can, let's hear it?

From my perspective, ending CAL MEC and dragging on the one way huge Bids in attempts to manipulate the SLI process..UAL MEC succeeded in that very important goal which I don't expect you to agree.

sUAL pilots are leaving and will continue to go back. I predict the 787 problems will keep a few sUAL 756s around longer and facilitate more recalls. Lets see what happens, but many of us have flown both the Bus and the Guppy and actually know the differences first hand.

If you are correct, this would be the first merger in history without redundancy cuts (ridiculously one sided in our case). I know they happened, you say not...fine.

 

[Flopgut]

If you are correct, this would be the first merger in history without redundancy cuts (ridiculously one sided in our case). I know they happened, you say not...fine.

I keep asking for a sUAL pilot to speak to what they think the the next bid will look like, and none of you answer. Truth is, we all know what it's going to look like. And the reason it will look that way is because sUAL is a ball and chain. Either admit it (I guess that's what you're saying in the above sentence), or spell out how I'm wrong. Right size for the merger? Stop flattering yourselves. All you do is shrink and furlough. Does not matter who you merged with, or if you didn't merge at all. Your old airplanes are going to continue to be parked as fast as your old pilots retire.

 

[chppr5]

I keep asking for a sUAL pilot to speak to what they think the the next bid will look like, and none of you answer. Truth is, we all know what it's going to look like. And the reason it will look that way is because sUAL is a ball and chain. Either admit it (I guess that's what you're saying in the above sentence), or spell out how I'm wrong. Right size for the merger? Stop flattering yourselves. All you do is shrink and furlough. Does not matter who you merged with, or if you didn't merge at all. Your old airplanes are going to continue to be parked as fast as your old pilots retire.

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW! You are a drama queen and love to stir the pot! We both brought pros and cons to the merger. Now we sit back and wait for the ISL. Why worry about "what if's"? Move on and stop the back and forth. You wonder why management treats us like children? All's they need is access to this board.

 

[MECH]

I agree...not trying initiate eye poking just respond to ridiculous assumptions. Also, if sUALs fleets were in such bad shape, I ask you to explain how sUAL was #1 in on time arrivals for the 2 years prior to the merger? Blaming pre-merger sUAL for UCHs mgmts screw ups post merger reminds me of Obama continuing to blame Bush years later for every no show/delivery failure over the last term.

If you look closely at pre merger s-UA stats you will notice a couple of telling facts. Your a/c utilization is pre merger was way lower then today. This made it much easier to substitute for broken a/c. Second your cancellation rate was a lot higher and cancellation do not count towards your on-time rate.

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[RT8VA]

Oh yeah, sUAL also flies across the Atlantic from 5 hubs in WB fleets(not a ton of 757s that pay guppy rates)

You do know that you were flying 767-300's for less than our Guppy rates right.

 

[eaglesview]

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW! You are a drama queen and love to stir the pot! We both brought pros and cons to the merger. Now we sit back and wait for the ISL. Why worry about "what if's"? Move on and stop the back and forth. You wonder why management treats us like children? All's they need is access to this board.

Amen to that. Bunch of folks thinking they have the crystal ball. Relax folks.

 

[Flopgut]

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW!

When the opportunities my side brings to the table is the subject, you've all got no shortage of speculation.