1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[SecondSegment]

Of the three avitars, the babe had the best headlights. That was a pretty good one, as avitars go.

Anyone that knows about the movement, knows that it's on the down low. The only reason that they know is because they can keep it that way. It's not really a matter of balls or bashing. When we get 161, it's a new game.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

S-

"management knows about it and is welcoming it"

Really? If you believe in any type of union, why would you write this phrase? Why in the world would anyone, who even marginly supports ANY type of union effort, care for one second what management "welcomes"?. Since 2005, flops' mgmt (including scab tyler, schreek, & ricci) have done everything to delay and derail first a union, and now a contract.

Do I believe the marker bros, jlh, cg, je, and a few vocal others whisper in scab tylers' ears that they have a "group of FO pilots"? Sure and so what? They've been whispering to each other for years. But, hey keep posting, because it only reveals your desperation. The contract is gonna get done in the next couple months no matter how much you talk of decertification or an impotent in-house.

 

[shanes123]

Hey Ludicrous Idiot..I just stated a fact..They know about and have encouraged it..I didnt say I encouraged a inhouse..You Union guys better pull your heads out of the sand or your @SSES..There is a group of pilots that think they can pull this off..And you are foolish to ignore it..They have spoke to management, they have a web site, And most of the pilots left at flops are Kool Aide drinkers..If management can delay your contract any longer..( Which they have been very succesful at so far) IBT is going to find themselves out in the cold..And the Pilots at flops will get what ever carrot manage may or may not give you..There once was a little company that all the big companies laughed at..That little company could never be a threat to Sears, Kmart..Well before you know it..that little company..(WALMART) quickly stomped all over those big bad companies..And they were to stupid to see it..I see IBT making the same mistake here..

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Find 3 acronyms here

FOPA – Flight Options Pilot Association – (2005) – name given to a proposed in-house union at Options. Anti-union sentiment (in the form of Anti-Teamsters sentiment) was propagated and this half-hearted announcement was emailed, via the company-issued Blackberry, to every pilot. No actions were taken against the pilot(s) who wrote and/or emailed the anonymous proposal, even after statements issued by management specifically prohibited the use of company issued Blackberries for union-related emails. A few days later, the Word attachment to the email revealed the author of the proposal to be a company ground instructor. The discredited FOPA proposal immediately became known as the “faux pas”.

(Faux pas – French literature - false setup / a social blunder; error in etiquette; tactless act or remark - from Webster’s New World College Dictionary).

There’s more to this story:

Do an internet search on the Teamsters and you could pretty easily come up with links to the mob and corruption and violence: The Teamsters are not without their faults. Next however (and in all fairness), do a search on the LAPD, or the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party, or Hollywood, or the US Government and you can find similar stories. The point: No organization is without fault. But, if you don’t want a union on property, deflect your negativity towards the popular Teamsters. Say, “It’s not that we don't want a union; we just don’t like the Teamsters. We think they’re icky and not in YOUR best interest!”

(That’s the part I like the best: management telling me what they think is in my best interest. DILLIGAF! – Do I Look Like I Give A F--- !)

But be sure to offer the alternative of an in-house union. Yes, there are a couple that work…… A couple - each individually with thousands of dues paying members. Without the financial support, an in-house is impotent and nothing more than a puppet. (Do a quick search on this forum and you’ll get all the reasons why an in-house is doomed from its inception.)

The FOPA “contract” was ridiculously short. It had some flashy titles and a couple paragraphs that sounded legally binding, but compared to the 30 section, 221 page Netjets contract, the proposal was, well, ludicrous. A thorough, well-worded, and legally binding contract is just as important as the financial support.

Finally, the author or propagator of the FOPA email: He was a pilot/ground instructor at Options and had recently returned to the company after (what I believe was) a life-threatening traffic accident: i.e. lots of hospital bills and time off recovering.

I admit I don’t know most of the details surrounding his accident or even his own personal life and conduct. What I believe (and take this as conjecture only) is this: He may have felt empathy towards Options because of his experience and he may have felt he was acting with good intentions. He most likely was not writing alone and he was probably coached into writing and soliciting the faux pas email.

If you want to learn how middle managers, program managers, supervisors, and instructors are coached, read a chapter called “World Airways” from CUB – Confessions of a Union Buster – Martin Levitt’s 1993 book about his years as a “labor relations management consultant”.

“But then I explained how it worked, how we wouldn’t hold back, we would just make department managers and supervisors do it for us. Then the cruel smiles appeared. That was even better. Let them rape each other.” Levitt, Martin Jay. Confessions of a Union Buster. Crown Publisher, Inc., New York, 1993, p. 94.

 

[shanes123]

S-

"management knows about it and is welcoming it"

Really? If you believe in any type of union, why would you write this phrase? Why in the world would anyone, who even marginly supports ANY type of union effort, care for one second what management "welcomes"?. Since 2005, flops' mgmt (including scab tyler, schreek, & ricci) have done everything to delay and derail first a union, and now a contract.

Do I believe the marker bros, jlh, cg, je, and a few vocal others whisper in scab tylers' ears that they have a "group of FO pilots"? Sure and so what? They've been whispering to each other for years. But, hey keep posting, because it only reveals your desperation. The contract is gonna get done in the next couple months no matter how much you talk of decertification or an impotent in-house.

I have no Idea what all that nonsense you wrote has to do with my post??? Maybe you should go into politics..You said alot..But didnt say SH*T

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

S.-

Name Calling? Really?? What’s next… racial epitaphs? And we haven’t even held hands!

But seriously, I’ve read most of your posts and I have a difficult time discerning what side you’re on.

You wrote: “I didn’t say I encouraged an inhouse… You Union guys…”…. Are you pro-union or anti-union? Are you pro-1108 or anti-1108? Either way, speak your mind. But back it up with something substantial…something I can believe in and give serious thought to.

Is there a group of FO pilots trying to get a decertification vote out? Can’t say for sure, but “absolutely fact”? OK.

Let me ask you this: A few years ago, there was a small fringe group that made some noise trying to impeach President Bush. (There is still a website at impeachbush.org.) And last summer, you probably heard of the “Birthers” who were advocating President Obama’s Presidency was illegitimate. Both groups were comparatively tiny; not small, but tiny. But, they made some noise. So what?

No matter what your own political leanings, what would you have done if you were either Bush or Obama and you had some extremists calling for your head? It’s simple: You keep an eye on them, you let them squawk as loud and as long as they want and you let them p*** away all they’re time and financial resources! The President has to focus on the j-o-b at hand and not on a fringe extremist group that’s screaming the sky is falling!

Same thing here. If bt, or the marker bros, or jlh, or cg, or je or even you is calling for the end of the 1108, well… OK. Let them. Go Ahead. That’s they’re prerogative and yours as well.

But if you’re really for a strong union, get involved with the IBT now. It’s not like you need to arrange a 100 million dollar presidential campaign. Pick up the phone and volunteer.

As for “most of the pilots left at flops are Kool Aide drinkers….” Didn’t 90 percent of the MIGS (members in good standing – another acronym!) vote in favor of a strike? 90 percent! Have some faith, s, that the 1108 is going to get this contract done.

 

[shanes123]

Ludy..I am not longer with Flops..But there are moles inside management that I know..They play the game..So my info is usually very accurate..I am not on a side since I dont have a horse in this race..Would I like to see some of my old friends get a good contract?? YES..It would help all us fractional pilots..Do I think IBT is doing a good job???? NO..Do I think management will out smart IBT???? good chance of it..I have posted the warning because I find this to be a credible threat..That FOPA you spoke of didnt have a chance in hell of getting off the ground back then..But there are pilots and management at Flops that seem to think they can get enough pilots to decertify 1108 with there promise of a quick contract..And theres enough fools and Koolaide drinkers there that would jump at something like that..When I find out there web adress I will send you a personal message..And you can make your own conclusions if 1108 has something to worry about...

 

[William Holiday]

Trying to start a unioun, that no one has heard about ??? Even a website ??? to make it look ligit, Good Gawd !! what other FUD is being pumped out of the turd tube.
I think the FUD machine is working hard before the start of negotiations toward the end of the month.

Fire Away.

 

[shanes123]

ludicrious...believe me now???

 

[dime line]

Ludy..I am not longer with Flops..But there are moles inside management that I know..They play the game..So my info is usually very accurate..I am not on a side since I dont have a horse in this race..Would I like to see some of my old friends get a good contract?? YES..It would help all us fractional pilots..Do I think IBT is doing a good job???? NO..Do I think management will out smart IBT???? good chance of it..I have posted the warning because I find this to be a credible threat..That FOPA you spoke of didnt have a chance in hell of getting off the ground back then..But there are pilots and management at Flops that seem to think they can get enough pilots to decertify 1108 with there promise of a quick contract..And theres enough fools and Koolaide drinkers there that would jump at something like that..

When I find out there web adress I will send you a personal message.

.And you can make your own conclusions if 1108 has something to worry about...

why does this have to be a secret?

 

[SecondSegment]

why does this have to be a secret?

It's no secret.

If you were a jogger looking for new places to run, Would you slap those nikes on and go for for a jog through da hood?

It's like posting on here, except, no guns just the arrogance that turned everyone off.

 

[shanes123]

It's no secret.

If you were a jogger looking for new places to run, Would you slap those nikes on and go for for a jog through da hood?

It's like posting on here, except, no guns just the arrogance that turned everyone off.

It is not a secret..Like I have said before..My info comes from the inside..I am just protecting the mole..Do a little digging..they only leak what they want everyone to know anyway..Even to there middle managers..

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Shanes123 pm’d me a website address - the same address he mentioned in one of his previous posts.

First: The website is a website… but just barely. It’s as close to a banner ad or affiliate ad as possible. There’s no mention of Options and no mention of unions. It is ambiguity at its finest. It simply posts an email address and reminds me of affiliate ads. I’ve learned the hard way what an affiliate ad is. Wikipedia has a long definition, but briefly, an affiliate ad advertises and collects information (like your name, address, and email) for a third party. Some are legitimate, others are scams. Because so many people (like me) are looking for work, employment scam ads are plentiful.

For now, it appears more thought and effort was put into the FOPA emails… and we all know what a mess that was.

Second: I’m not posting the website address. Is this even an Options-pilots-related website? IF this is really an anti-union website and IF this is an anti-IBT website, then I’m not the one to promote or propagate that information. That dirty work is best left to skanza, b19, or secondsegment.

S.-

I disagree with your methods. I neither wanted, nor solicited a pm of the website you introduced. OK, so you sent it. Were you intending for me to be the one to publicly post the address? And why post publicly “did I believe you now”?

I do think I understand your message – that you believe the 1108 ought to focus more on a small anti-union movement and that to ignore them will bring them peril. I think that’s it… So what exact legal actions would you have them take, if any?

This “website”, the FUD… it’s just another distraction. But I heartily believe the scabs, et al, wouldn’t be making these efforts if the 1108 wasn’t as strong as it is and if the contract wasn’t as close to completion as it is.

 

[shanes123]

Well Ludy..You are entitled to your opinion..And believe it or not We probably are on the same side..Yes the website is barely a website..I agree..I just think to ignore any threat is foolish..spending all of 1108 time worrying about every threat is of course foolish..But to ignore every threat and think you are to big or bad to be over thrown is also foolish..At this point I am sure the powers to be are aware of this group..and in the end everyone will get what they deserve..I am a firm believer in that..Management at one time thought they were to big and bad to have a union vote pass..Funny how short memories....Good luck

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Some silly questions to the creators of that silly website

Wow, what fast and dramatic changes you’ve made.

A comment about a contract’s scope section and why it’s so important. When management out-sources jobs, especially to non-English speaking countries, the results can be catastrophic or at least, embarrassing; not to mention the loss of jobs to trained, qualified, motivated, and professional Americans. You get results like:

“We want take back control of our future with your vote.”

Q Do I get Flie lice with that?

Some more:

Q A priest, a rabbi, and a scum sucking… nope, that’s one’s kinda old.

Q A train leaves the station at…. Naw, always hated that question.

Oh here we are:

Q Is the three-year-old that designed your original page available for bar-mitzvahs, weddings, and birthday announcements?

Q Did said three-year-old spend more than 30 seconds working on the site?

Q Written on the sites’ first (and only) page, is “employed at Options”. Do you mean Flight Options??? Why didn’t you use the company’s full name?

Q Will your organization’s office be across the street from Flight Options’ headquarters or will it be conveniently located in bt’s office?

Q After the 1108’s contract is TA’d and you stand up and yell that your proposal is better, will President Obama still call you a jacka**?

Q Before writing the phrase “When we have 161 employed pilots supporting this cause”, were the mushrooms properly cooked or were they ingested raw?

Q How are union dues collected and is the payee name b19skanza one word or two?

Q Wouldn’t a more apt name for your website be: reamthepilots.com? No? How ‘bout: misleadthepilots.com? bleedthepilots.com? stealfromthepilots.com?

Q When exactly do you expect to have a signed contract with management and speaking of the year 2034, will I be able to purchase hover-boards, like in that Back to the Future movie?

Q Speaking of movies, how come my computer makes sounds eerily similar to those made by Ned Beatty in that awful scene from Deliverance whenever I visit your website?

Q “…supporting this cause then democracy will prevail.” Democracy… Really? When are the elections for union board members expected to be held? Please name one candidate for union president, negotiating committee, or the executive board. (A legitimate Flight Options line pilot’s name, please.)

Last:

Q Where’s the “fanatical attention to detail”?

 

[SecondSegment]

There are allot of normal, hard working people that do not want to have their futures controlled or effected by people who get irrational.

In fact, there have been pilots that were so wacked out with their perceptions union enthusiasm that even the 1108 abandoned them after they got the ol heave-ho. One of the people that I'm thinking of considders himself a hostage and liked to type ALLOT. Too bad he had to be the sacrificial lamb thrown into the volcano. Bahaaaaa.

 

[993_Pilot]

There are allot of normal, hard working people that do not want to have their futures controlled or effected by people who get irrational.

In fact, there have been pilots that were so wacked out with their perceptions union enthusiasm that even the 1108 abandoned them after they got the ol heave-ho. One of the people that I'm thinking of considders himself a hostage and liked to type ALLOT. Too bad he had to be the sacrificial lamb thrown into the volcano. Bahaaaaa.

allot
–verb (used with object), -lot⋅ted, -lot⋅ting.
1. to divide or distribute by share or portion; distribute or parcel out; apportion: to allot the available farmland among the settlers.
2. to appropriate for a special purpose: to allot money for a park.
3. to assign as a portion; set apart; dedicate.

a lot (two words)
-adverb
to a very great degree or extent;
e.g. "I feel a lot better"

 

[SecondSegment]

Thanks Homer.

Nice Wheels.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

SS-

Maybe there’s some common ground here: I too didn’t want my future controlled or affected by people who got irrational.

So how do you consider pilot pushing and pilot shopping and repeated maintenance write-ups as rational? How do you find a former ceo, who at one company Christmas party openly prays for “God to bless his “go-forward” [business] plan” - A plan that included reducing the number of types of aircraft AND the number of aircraft AND the number of pilots AND the number of share owners AND the number of business employees! - (How’s that for irony! - Get the employees to pray for a plan that means the loss of their very own jobs!) -- How’s that rational?

How do you find a business plan (by that same former ceo) that’s subsidized by employee pay and benefits, as rational? How do you consider spending millions of dollars on new paint schemes & a service initiative class series (especially when you’re crying poor in the next sentence) as rational? How is a 159% increase in health insurance premiums rational? How can an edwardian blunder be overlooked and considered rational? How can an arms treaty or a peace treaty between two sovereign nations take weeks or a few months to ratify and a business contract between an employer and its employees take nearly four years? How is that rational?

As for your “wacked out” comment”: Extremism is not acceptable – from both sides of the aisle. So as you cast your light onto the pilots, so too must your light shine on all the ranks of management, pm’s, and ip’s “that were so brain-washed and wacked out with their own anti-union enthusiasm.”

 

[SecondSegment]

Bahaaaaa..... Into the volcano buddy.

If you read anything that I have written you might see that you are disconnected. In fact, your previous posts have the same problem. I am for political evoloution at Options that will be beneficial to both the company and the pilots.

I was hoping our deffinitionologist would intervene here but.......



ir⋅ra⋅tion⋅al  

–adjective 1.without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.2.without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.3.not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments. 4.not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.