10/250

[Blueridgeflyer]

What's the maximum?

The maximum should be derived by a proper balance between employee value and a fair return to BRK.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Is Gutshot a negotiator? If he is then present it, if not then what's the point of presenting the idea here.

No, I'm not on the negotiating team. But I wanted to get a feel for what people OUTSIDE the NJASAP echo chamber message board think of the 10/250 concept.

The discussion, for the most part, has been respectful and enlightening.

 

[fischman]

What's the maximum?

The minimum is set by the union. The maximum by the company. That's how negotiations work.

 

[dicko]

No, I don't yet. The number is highly dependant on the rest of the sections. You should know that.

Here's one way to look at it:

Your company will operate a jet thats only equal in range is a 777 or higher. A jet that operates at cruise speeds that exceed a 777 or higher. A jet that provides a level of service, security, luxury and privacy that far exceeds the most expensive seat on any commercial jet in the world. Singapore Airlines first class included.

A Southwest Captain makes more than $250K. A 777 Captain with a first class cabin makes more than $250K. What are Global 8000/G650 Captains going to make in China ? I bet it will reach $250K.

Every Captain responsible, for every comparable method of travel, is paid at that level or above.

 

[imacdog]

Awesome, Dicko. How much revenue does that 777 bring in on a typical flight?

 

[imacdog]

Once again iMac dog, what do you consider an appropriate raise?

I've already answered multiple times. But to ask you a question - what are you willing to give up to get that 250K for a 7/7 10-year captain?

Any other belieber is welcome to answer as well.

 

[dicko]

Awesome, Dicko. How much revenue does that 777 bring in on a typical flight?

Great question. How much does it cost to operate ? It's an economy of scale issue. The margin is surprisingly small. We could use a 737 as an example; The pay is still over $250K and the margins are small. I think the margin for a Global operated by NJA is better than a 737. Shouldn't that be reflected in the pilots pay ?

Boeing estimates that 50% of an airlines revenue is generated by 10% of its seats. That 10% is the premium seating.The cost of those seats is chump change compared to what a NJ owner pays.

My point is; the owners are expecting the highest level of transportation that is available today, and they're paying a huge premium for it. The pilots are being compensated somewhere between a well paid regional and a National airline. There's a disconnect.

Happy to be corrected. Hopefully the NJ Pilots negotiating Committee knows the answers. Good luck to all.

 

[jonjuan]

Here's one way to look at it:

Your company will operate a jet thats only equal in range is a 777 or higher. A jet that operates at cruise speeds that exceed a 777 or higher. A jet that provides a level of service, security, luxury and privacy that far exceeds the most expensive seat on any commercial jet in the world. Singapore Airlines first class included.

A Southwest Captain makes more than $250K. A 777 Captain with a first class cabin makes more than $250K. What are Global 8000/G650 Captains going to make in China ? I bet it will reach $250K.

Every Captain responsible, for every comparable method of travel, is paid at that level or above.

But I thought flylow and Fisch didn't want to be compared to the airlines?

 

[gret]

Great question. How much does it cost to operate ? It's an economy of scale issue. The margin is surprisingly small. We could use a 737 as an example; The pay is still over $250K and the margins are small. I think the margin for a Global operated by NJA is better than a 737. Shouldn't that be reflected in the pilots pay ?

Boeing estimates that 50% of an airlines revenue is generated by 10% of its seats. That 10% is the premium seating.The cost of those seats is chump change compared to what a NJ owner pays.

My point is; the owners are expecting the highest level of transportation that is available today, and they're paying a huge premium for it. The pilots are being compensated somewhere between a well paid regional and a National airline. There's a disconnect.

Happy to be corrected. Hopefully the NJ Pilots negotiating Committee knows the answers. Good luck to all.

Bit of a disconnect...how much utilization is there with an airliner versus a corporate jet...not even close so the figures are meaningless...

 

[gunfyter]

The maximum pay....

Is whatever sum it is that is more cost efficient or otherwise more beneficial than replacing the worker.... It's the union's job to find out what that number is and get it negotiated into the next CBA.

The minimum pay ...

is whatever number it takes to keep most of the workers from leaving the property so as to minimize replacement cost. Its the company negotiators job to find that number.

 

[brokeflyer]

what are you willing to give up to get that 250K for a 7/7 10-year captain?

so much has been given up over the last 10 years by the pilot group, there isnt anything left to give back.

The company will need to bring their end up first.

 

[cldsfr79]

You know why I would vote down 10/250? It's not because I don't think I deserve it, it's because some of the guys that thump their chest saying they want "10/250" don't deserve it and I don't want them to have it.

They are the non-cream-of-the-crop senior guys that I worry about and get frustrated with on a daily bases. Planes not clean, stock a mess, they are more interested in catching the game on a comfy lazy-boy chair in the FBO than doing anything else. They think that the FO is supposed to do everything, and that they just come up to the cockpit to start the engines and at the end of the flight they walk off saying how they have to go and do the paper work (which takes all of 2 minutes but takes them a 1/2 hour).

And.....
Because these guys can barely pass an open book FOM test (when we used to be tested on it). Because it is a struggle for them just to make it through their 6 month recurrent because they don't care to study or take it serious (we are required by the company to take orals, which can be more lenient, because the company fears that guys would fail writtens....true story). Because when another trip drops on their schedule I hear "oh I'm not doing that, that's BS, I'm fatigued", and I have to come and wipe their a$$ and cover their trip. Because they will convince you that sick days are all personal days that they can constantly use them when ever the weather is good enough to go golfing. Because they don't iron their shirts, polish their shoes, or wear the proper uniform jacket. Because the retired guys will never leave and this place and would use it as an unlimited ATM for them. Because they think they are still flying freight. Because they completely don't understand the meaning of a luxury experience, even though they have been flying private jets for 10+ years. Because in the next recession when I get downgraded and/or furloughed, these guys will still be there.

Although these guys are a minority, I don't want them to get a penny more for their piss poor work ethic, behavior, and skills. You act like a professional, you get more pay. Ok, discuss........

 

[gret]

Guess you didn't have a great day!

 

[dime line]

You know why I would vote down 10/250? It's not because I don't think I deserve it, it's because some of the guys that thump their chest saying they want "10/250" don't deserve it and I don't want them to have it

Now that makes a lot of sense! ......................Small print.........I get what your saying

 

[PoorGuy]

You know why I would vote down 10/250? It's not because I don't think I deserve it, it's because some of the guys that thump their chest saying they want "10/250" don't deserve it and I don't want them to have it.

Although these guys are a minority, I don't want them to get a penny more for their piss poor work ethic, behavior, and skills. You act like a professional, you get more pay. Ok, discuss........

Dude, seriously???
I'm sure you are frustrated, but why would you cut off your nose to spite your face? You don't want to bring home more money for your family because of a few turds? You said they were the minority anyway...