10/250

[gret]

If you have $200 million in operating profit (which is suspect), how are you going to increase compensation north of $200 million without creating a loss?

The company needs profits to reinvest in the business and to pay shareholders a return on their investment.

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

If you have $200 million in operating profit (which is suspect), how are you going to increase compensation north of $200 million without creating a loss?

The company needs profits to reinvest in the business and to pay shareholders a return on their investment.

Gret

Much of that operational profit was deployed to pay off greater than 1B in secured BRK debt. I think it's been fairly well established and accepted that Netjets will soon be profitable to the tune of >800 million net. You are intelligent enough to determine the source of capital.

 

[gunfyter]

I don't think the amount of debt reduced is additional profit on the $225M or so that was reported. I believe the $225 Million is the entire profit including the debt reduction.

 

[gret]

Gret

Much of that operational profit was deployed to pay off greater than 1B in secured BRK debt. I think it's been fairly well established and accepted that Netjets will soon be profitable to the tune of >800 million net. You are intelligent enough to determine the source of capital.

If you're able to get it up to $800 million in operating profit...you deserve whatever you ask for. Just can't see it happening.

Just to set the record straight...paying off debt doesn't mean it came from operating earnings. Selling assets (i.e. aircraft) is the method most companies use when they have to downsize. The debt was created with buying assets...and it is reduced by selling them.

 

[gret]

Debt repayments don't flow thru the income statement to compute operating profit. Repayment of debt is a balance sheet entry.

Cash flow comes from many sources such as selling assets, collecting receivables, delaying vendor payments, etc....and operating profit plus depreciation and other non cash charges.

In NetJets case, most of the cash came from selling aircraft that they had to buy back from owners. The debt was incurred to meet the contractual obligations to the owners and when NetJets sold the aircraft, they took the proceeds to repay the debt.

 

[jetlag7]

Debt repayments don't flow thru the income statement to compute operating profit. Repayment of debt is a balance sheet entry.

Cash flow comes from many sources such as selling assets, collecting receivables, delaying vendor payments, etc....and operating profit plus depreciation and other non cash charges.

In NetJets case, most of the cash came from selling aircraft that they had to buy back from owners. The debt was incurred to meet the contractual obligations to the owners and when NetJets sold the aircraft, they took the proceeds to repay the debt.

Makes sense, but just one problem.... how does selling 12 aircraft last year at deflated used aircraft prices equate to $800 million???

 

[NJAowner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newkem
Say what?

Oh, same goes for an owner. No owner is irreplaceable - there will be others.


Please tell me Newkem doesn't work for NJA?


FROM THE COMMENT LOOKS LIKE HE IS IN SALES.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Say what?

Oh, same goes for an owner. No owner is irreplaceable - there will be others.

We are all replaceable -- owners too. However, NJ has had its "sign out" for "hiring" new owners and the line is not very long.

Honest question here NJAowner. I have no idea what goes on with NJ anymore, but it seems you bash (tactfully at least) management and NJ in general every time these threads come about. Does management enlighten the owners as to how sales are going and the day to day status of operations? You mention your discussions with other owners as your source of info. Just curious where you come up with "the line is not very long"?

As some of the other 495 outcasts have stated, we are banned from the big boy page, so If you are actually an owner, it would be interesting to hear your reasoning. Bash away........

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

If you're able to get it up to $800 million in operating profit...you deserve whatever you ask for. Just can't see it happening.

Just to set the record straight...paying off debt doesn't mean it came from operating earnings. Selling assets (i.e. aircraft) is the method most companies use when they have to downsize. The debt was created with buying assets...and it is reduced by selling them.

This number has been, shall we say, well vetted. I have it on pretty good authority that the company sales metric is doing better than expected without getting into specifics. The EMT is in a big hurry to push this CBA through which should be very telling for the casual observer. We will certainly do our honest best to make the case for higher compensation. As one NJA owner recently told us post flight "you guys are the glue that keeps the operation together. They'd better treat you well this go around." People are beginning to pay attention.

 

[NJAowner]

I admit all of my facts are anecdotal, but the reports from all of the various companies as to number of owners, fleet size, etc., seem to support them.

I say "the line is not very long" because while I do not know all cusomters or prosepctive customers, I do not know a single person who has either bought a new share at NJA or migtrated from another major provider to NJA in the past few years. I do perosnally know about 50+ NJA owners/former owners who have either completely exited NJA or substantially reduced their NJA shares and have replaced their NJA flying with another major provider. And most of these changes were service based (not pilots), not all economically motivated.

I am critical of NJA management since they took an organization that was truly the epitome of customer service with unbelievable marketshare and pricing power and destroyed it -- however they still seem to think it is 2007. And the once very cooperative and responsive dialogue with its owners has been eliminated and owners are now treated with contempt and like they are idiots. I think it is helpful for the pilots to know how things really are from the customer side and not just the rosy pictures delivered by management.

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

I admit all of my facts are anecdotal, but the reports from all of the various companies as to number of owners, fleet size, etc., seem to support them.

I say "the line is not very long" because while I do not know all cusomters or prosepctive customers, I do not know a single person who has either bought a new share at NJA or migtrated from another major provider to NJA in the past few years. I do perosnally know about 50+ NJA owners/former owners who have either completely exited NJA or substantially reduced their NJA shares and have replaced their NJA flying with another major provider. And most of these changes were service based (not pilots), not all economically motivated.

I am critical of NJA management since they took an organization that was truly the epitome of customer service with unbelievable marketshare and pricing power and destroyed it -- however they still seem to think it is 2007. And the once very cooperative and responsive dialogue with its owners has been eliminated and owners are now treated with contempt and like they are idiots. I think it is helpful for the pilots to know how things really are from the customer side and not just the rosy pictures delivered by management.

A prominent lovable person within the flight operations likes to say "this is what keeps me up at night." I have recently washed through CMH and made it abundantly clear that we neither have the staffing or airframes to meet current demand based on personal observation. I am very concerned about brand erosion as are others. Our owners deserve better...as do the rank and file within Columbus and on the flight line. As part of my briefing, I make it a point to ask owners what Netjets can do to make their experience better. A majority of them are surprisingly satisfied....which is good on face value, but disconnected from my perception of how thin the operation is stretched. But protracted adversarial negotiations with Dispatchers, Flight Attendants and Pilots do not make for happy motivated employees.

 

[luckydog]

Here's my guess...
Anyone that believes this 10/250 idea is real has been punked!

No one can believe their own press enough to think they "deserve" that much for so little, except maybe Bieber.

 

[gret]

Makes sense, but just one problem.... how does selling 12 aircraft last year at deflated used aircraft prices equate to $800 million???

May sell in one year and repay the debt in another.

 

[NJAowner]

A majority of them are surprisingly satisfied....which is good on face value,

All owners I know a very satisfied with the pilots. I think many of them will not complain to the pilots about problems and issues the owners are having with operations. My guess is all newcomers to private aviation are ecstatic (as we all once were). However, longer owners of NJ shares see the service as inferior to what it once was. It is all about expectations -- when these are incredibly great and responsive (a 100 on a scale), getting a mere 96 while still great is a step down. The real test of owners' sentiment is where their private aviation dollars are going -- and the "net flow" of these dollars is not into NJ. I have also pointed out before how various departments at NJ can "play" with their numbers to make their department look better and management then uses the same numbers to show how wonderful things are -- but so far from reality.

The old NJ culture was do whatever it takes to get an owner where they expect to be on time or as close to it. That is no longer the culture. I have had quite a number of flights (some in the past year, and this has happened to others I know) where operations decides it is better to give the owner the contractual credit for a late flight (capped at 2 hours in the last few years of contracts -- but it did not used to be capped) than actually bring in a recovery aircraft (which may be larger) or use sell off. While that may save NJ $$, it does not make for happy owners. This is especially true as sales uses the "depth" of the NJ and EJM fleets for recovery purposes as one of the major reasons to use NJ and not a competitor.

 

[Pervis]

NJAowner, we had similar issues early last decade, especially in the summer of 2005. Rapid growth and a contentious labor/management relationship were a bad combination. We are beginning to see the same, and we are doing more with 100 fewer aircraft and 500 fewer pilots.

The ebbs and flows continue, and we will get over it-eventually. Please remember one very important thing. The vast majority of pilots will do what it takes to make your purchase pleasurable. What you don't see prior to wheels up would astound you. Additionally, the current EMT will be long gone way before we are. Your continued support will contribute to that end.

 

[imacdog]

THE STORY SO FAR.....

fischman believes he is worth a raise....

imacdog is angry with fishman for wanting a raise....

THE END

I think "amused" would be a better descriptor for Fisch wanting a more than 100% raise. Not "A" raise, as you stated. "A" raise, as I have stated, is in order for NJA pilots. Seems you guys aren't bright enough to get that raise, if you're so incapable of reading comprehension.

 

[jetlag7]

I think "amused" would be a better descriptor for Fisch wanting a more than 100% raise. Not "A" raise, as you stated. "A" raise, as I have stated, is in order for NJA pilots. Seems you guys aren't bright enough to get that raise, if you're so incapable of reading comprehension.

Petty and insulting.... soooo classy...

 

[imacdog]

.........but so correct.

 

[G4dude]

.........but so correct.

Imacdog is correct. Would we want a raise that is too much? If it makrs NJA noncompetitive? His point is spot on.

 

[fischman]

Imacdog is correct. Would we want a raise that is too much? If it makrs NJA noncompetitive? His point is spot on.

Again... What competition?

Sales is making the company uncompetitive. Not the pilots.