A challenge to the Flexjet Pilots on the fence or against a union

[993_Pilot]

"We don't need an outside party getting between us"

"The union just wants your dues"

"Just give me one year"

These phrases, and others like them, are all tired phrases that have been used by management since the dawn of unions.

Firing the 3 POC members is another tactic to instill fear, that is almost always used. And that is exactly what it was, a union busting tactic. KR was willing to harm 3 pilots and their families in an effort to prevent a union.

I don't ask you to take my word for it. So to that end, I have a challenge for all the Flexjet pilots who intend to vote "NO" to union representation or are still on the fence. Don't you owe it to yourselves to investigate both sides of the argument? Before you cast your vote just watch these series of videos. They won't take more that 30 minutes of your time all together. Listen for some of the exact same phrases and tactics that DAC/Onesky management have already, and will continue to use. I believe that when you watch them, a lot of things will become clear.

Confessions of a Union Buster - Episode 1
Confessions of a Union Buster - Episode 2
Confessions of a Union Buster - Episode 3
Confessions of a Union Buster - Episode 4

(Episode 3 is especially fitting for RH/WL and explains how he and other managers have been played by senior DAC management. So much so, that I almost feel sorry for him because his only other choice was to be fired. It also makes me think Deanna had some real integrity and probably refused to play along with KR)

 

[warlord19]

And I have a challenge for you 993. Why don't you make a list of all the companies in the WORLD where paid employees of that company can go on a company-provided website and call the owner/management names, that they are stupid and their ideas are stupid, etc etc etc and not expect consequences. I know the answer, probably most of the fence-sitters know the answer.....I wonder if you can figure it out?
WL

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Why won't KR let the FO pilots on yammer I wonder? He directly communicated with us about the CA deal so that can't be the reason. Just another lie to you guys since he knows a large majority of them know the truth about his management style and could refute his claims on yammer with proof! Did you know in his letter to us about the CA buyout he basically said (paraphrase)I want this, you want this, it is good for the company, the CA pilots won't be able to sue you (the 1108) because they don't have enough money!

 

[993_Pilot]

And I have a challenge for you 993. Why don't you make a list of all the companies in the WORLD where paid employees of that company can go on a company-provided website and call the owner/management names, that they are stupid and their ideas are stupid, etc etc etc and not expect consequences. I know the answer, probably most of the fence-sitters know the answer.....I wonder if you can figure it out?
WL

You tell me, because I don't know of a single one, WL. Kenn Ricci won't let the Flight Options pilots on Yammer, and he fires any Flexjet pilot who speaks out against him or is for unionization. Last I knew, he wasn't paying for the VUH or for Flight Info. Has something changed there? By the way, calling him a liar is simply a proven fact, not name calling. There are no hard feelings here, he has his agenda, and he has proven time and again, what he is willing to do to get there. I get it, but it just doesn't work for the majority of the pilots, unless you are a FOK.

 

[Praetorian]

And I have a challenge for you 993. Why don't you make a list of all the companies in the WORLD where paid employees of that company can go on a company-provided website and call the owner/management names, that they are stupid and their ideas are stupid, etc etc etc and not expect consequences. I know the answer, probably most of the fence-sitters know the answer.....I wonder if you can figure it out?
WL

Let's call it what it was. Union busting! In his decision, Arbitrator Javits, who is the former chairman of the federal National Mediation Board, stated he believed upon review of the evidence that, "management's actions were designed to send a chilling message to pilots who were strongly supportive of the IBT's organizing drive."

 

[exagony]

Let's call it what it was. Union busting! In his decision, Arbitrator Javits, who is the former chairman of the federal National Mediation Board, stated he believed upon review of the evidence that, "management's actions were designed to send a chilling message to pilots who were strongly supportive of the IBT's organizing drive."

KR openly admitted to firing the 3 pilots to stop the union in his latest video.

 

[realityman]

And I have a challenge for you 993. Why don't you make a list of all the companies in the WORLD where paid employees of that company can go on a company-provided website and call the owner/management names, that they are stupid and their ideas are stupid, etc etc etc and not expect consequences. I know the answer, probably most of the fence-sitters know the answer.....I wonder if you can figure it out?
WL

Ever hear of progressive discipline?

If not, don't worry, you won't hear of it if you don't vote in the union.

I'm not a FO or Flex pilot, but I've had a lot of experience with KR. Constant lies. And yes, he is following the tried and true tactics right out of the union buster's handbook.

How long has he already had to prove himself? Whaddya think so far? You really think another year will change things? Actually, it will. If you wait another year it'll be all the harder to organize at that point. KR wins. All of you are screwed.

Good luck to the entire group! You guys deserve better than to live your professional lives subject to the random whims of management. A union doesn't mean you want to put the company out of business with unreasonable demands, it means you want CONSISTENT and ENFORCEABLE work rules. That's not a bad thing guys and gals.

 

[warlord19]

realityman: Thanks for answering my last post…it seems to have gone right over 993’s head OR he couldn’t answer it. Any who, I’ve heard of progressive discipline, it’s been around for decades. I also have stated on this board that Mr. R(or Uncle in IBT-speak) has a brass ear when it comes to IBT organizing tactics and his own actions. I do KNOW that if I were working at an organization that paid me a good salary with many benefits and I CHOSE to go on a company-sponsored board and bad-mouth that organization and the chairman and his management team that I could EXPECT to be fired. In our case, It would have been wiser to have done progressive punishment, but it wasn’t and is one of the main reasons we MIGHT see the IBT on-property. On the other hand, I’ve never seen so many opportunities and improvements and soon-to-be wage increases( if the vote is NO) that I’ve seen here in the last 2 years. My last post proved how much you and your compatriots will lie and distort the truth for your own purposes i.e. to unionize . I picked 4 things off the top of my head that I remembered lemmings said would come true, and not one of them has happened or will happen….no response from anyone….except something really lame like “the union blah blah.” You say all of us are screwed. If what you call getting screwed all of the above benefits, I’ll supply the KY.
Regards,
WL

 

[Bjtdrvr]

WL please give the FO pilots access to yammer!

 

[realityman]

realityman: Thanks for answering my last post?it seems to have gone right over 993?s head OR he couldn?t answer it. Any who, I?ve heard of progressive discipline, it?s been around for decades. I also have stated on this board that Mr. R(or Uncle in IBT-speak) has a brass ear when it comes to IBT organizing tactics and his own actions. I do KNOW that if I were working at an organization that paid me a good salary with many benefits and I CHOSE to go on a company-sponsored board and bad-mouth that organization and the chairman and his management team that I could EXPECT to be fired. In our case, It would have been wiser to have done progressive punishment, but it wasn?t and is one of the main reasons we MIGHT see the IBT on-property. On the other hand, I?ve never seen so many opportunities and improvements and soon-to-be wage increases( if the vote is NO) that I?ve seen here in the last 2 years. My last post proved how much you and your compatriots will lie and distort the truth for your own purposes i.e. to unionize . I picked 4 things off the top of my head that I remembered lemmings said would come true, and not one of them has happened or will happen?.no response from anyone?.except something really lame like ?the union blah blah.? You say all of us are screwed. If what you call getting screwed all of the above benefits, I?ll supply the KY.
Regards,
WL

Whatever you have to tell yourself to make you feel better in the morning. KR's history speaks for itself. Elimination of the 401k match with multiple broken promises of when it'll be back. Elimination of the STIP (Whatever that was. Doesn't sound like anyone was too happy about that move except maybe KR.). Out of seniority movement of pilots to the bigger planes. His SFO program (which was around way back when I flew for him) which is and always has been a reward program for those with the cushiest knee pads and biggest tube of chapstick. Less desirable schedules. Illegally fired three union organizing pilots (an identical move he had made during the days of the merger with TA when they first started organizing and for which he was also smacked down in the courts (you know, that thing about past behavior predicting future behavior). I believe he did reduce the basing system (but not sure on this one). And the list goes on and on and on. Oh yeah, I absolutely understand why you'd prefer to give him a chance before the union. By the way, what have the last couple years been with him? The test period before the start of the trial period?

There is NOTHING stopping KR from giving all the good stuff right now. In fact, that would be exactly how to keep the union off the property. Know why JetBlue is the only carrier of its size without a unionized pilot force? Because management is keeping things good enough so that most don't feel the need for a union. They aren't making promises about what they'll get if they don't vote in a union. They're giving it to them NOW so there's no need to promise anything.

KR is playing let's make a deal where all the boxes are empty that he wants you to trade the union for. He's counting on a bunch of suckers flying for him. Like I said, I don't have to say anything. His history speaks volumes. Anyone who studies it and still says, "I really think we need to give him a chance. " deserves everything that comes of it.

Getting a contract, especially a good one, is hard work, a big fight, and certainly comes with no guarantees. And a truly good CBA won't be accomplished in the first round. Does that mean you're better off taking everything KR is willing to give (there's only one opening that guy is ever going to give you anything through so you may want to practice bending over)? Apparently you think it is. So vote no for the union. Hey, you get one vote like anyone else (unless you're management. You're not management are you? ).

As for me, been in the union and living with a CBA since I came to work for NJA almost 19 years ago. The difference between here and working for KR was night and day, even with our most recent incredibly hostile EMT. Nothing like consistent work rules, compensation, and benefits to come home to instead of empty promises for doing someone else's bidding.

Unions aren't perfect. And I sure as heck haven't been happy with everything my union had done! But I'll take it 20 times a day, every day, over working for KR without one. Been there, done that. Not impressed.

 

[993_Pilot]

realityman: Thanks for answering my last post?it seems to have gone right over 993?s head OR he couldn?t answer it. Any who, I?ve heard of progressive discipline, it?s been around for decades. I also have stated on this board that Mr. R(or Uncle in IBT-speak) has a brass ear when it comes to IBT organizing tactics and his own actions. I do KNOW that if I were working at an organization that paid me a good salary with many benefits and I CHOSE to go on a company-sponsored board and bad-mouth that organization and the chairman and his management team that I could EXPECT to be fired. In our case, It would have been wiser to have done progressive punishment, but it wasn?t and is one of the main reasons we MIGHT see the IBT on-property....

So let's see if I got this right, because I'm not too bright. You want me to comment on something I never saw? Of course I couldn't answer, I don't know what they said because I am not allowed on Yammer, except apparently one of them said "A-Friggen' Men" in response to another post, and that has become the rallying cry for organizing. But whatever was said couldn't have been that bad. Isn't part of the purpose of Yammer for management to get feedback from the employees? What I do know is that the arbitrator, who presumably did see what they wrote on Yammer, and someone with a lot more legal experience than both you and KR put together, sure didn't think it was worth firing them for, and ordered them back to work. In fact, I believe he said "Management's actions were designed to send a chilling message to pilots who were strongly supportive of the IBT's organizing drive." That speaks volumes.

....On the other hand, I?ve never seen so many opportunities and improvements and soon-to-be wage increases( if the vote is NO) that I?ve seen here in the last 2 years. My last post proved how much you and your compatriots will lie and distort the truth for your own purposes i.e. to unionize . I picked 4 things off the top of my head that I remembered lemmings said would come true, and not one of them has happened or will happen?.no response from anyone?.except something really lame like ?the union blah blah.? You say all of us are screwed. If what you call getting screwed all of the above benefits, I?ll supply the KY.
Regards,
WL

We already know you are drinking the koolaide. You have to or you wouldn't be around, but then again, you probably won't be around real long after the vote anyways. The biggest difference here is our perspective. I have worked for KR, and already been through one merger. I know that a lot of what he says are nothing more than false promises and outright lies, because I have already lived it once. I already know he will play favorites and seniority will be nothing but a number if we vote NO. You, on the other hand, haven't been through it before, and can't speak from experience, but you obviously want desperately to believe his lies, and have no choice but to regurgitate them, or you will be fired sooner, rather than later. Your only hope to keep your job is to convince the pilots to vote NO, and even then it is still very iffy at best. I have already seen KR choose his fair-haired golden boys over far more qualified people many times through the years. Although we sit on different sides of the fence, we share something... neither you or I are not part of KR's inner circle, and we never will be. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be. My advice to you is to make peace with it, dust off that resume', update your linked-in profile and start knocking on doors. Cheers!

 

[warlord19]

realityman, since you claim you don’t have a horse in this race, I would normally ignore your post. However, you write well and it’s intelligible, even if wrong, so I will indulge you this last message.

First, I don’t generally talk to myself in the morn, though a good BM makes me feel a whole lot better. And you do have a horse in this race, which is to write badly about our Management so as to persuade us to vote in the IBT. Then, it would take us years to recover and vote them out as your present employer did so many years ago after they got to know the real IBT (please, spare me and the other reader the union spin on why you voted them out) while allowing your somewhat faltering organization more breathing room to play catch up with us. Also, we are now a large enough group of pilots so that a union might be a good thing for us….JUST NOT THE IBT. It’s National Office is a nest of thieves, and will probably go BACK under FEDERAL WATCH next year and to whom LOCAL 1108 sends a portion of EACH PILOT’S DUES every month. Such a sweet deal, huh?

If we vote NO and the Chairman of our company turns out to be SATAN, then we can start an HONEST UNION here a year from the vote count. And, we will have gained all the salary raises for EVERY pilot…not a bad deal, huh? Apparently ALPA will consider us if we are not IBT affiliated, and I’m sure your place would partner with us also, right? It’s all about unity and brotherhood, right?

And Duhhh, one of your more emotional guys here, writes that only the Red Label pilots will get these raises……I think even he knows that management cannot promise raises and things during an organization drive…it’s against the law, Duhhhhhh.

So, I’m gonna give management a chance and believe they will do just fine. They are NOT my enemy. If we kick the IBT out, ALL PILOTS should see a good raise. The marketplace for Pilots is tight and that’s the main factor driving wages, not your union or any union (this is assuming your management wants to stay competitive in the marketplace).
Adios,
WL

 

[warlord19]

993, are you being modest or are you truly not very bright? You seem to write well on this board, kinda like realityman, so I bet your just being modest.

Anywho, you say “A-Friggen Men” is the union rallying cry now….kinda cute, kinda like “remember the Alamo” or “God, Country, and Apple Pie” or something along that line.
Another one would be “kill a commie for Christ”…remember that one?

I notice anytime anyone doesn’t agree to your ideas, they have to be drinking company koolaide (as opposed to IBT koolaide). That’s a fine theory, but not accurate. I don’t think anyone (workers or management) knows my identity here (other than Duhhh and a few others who think I’m RH) so I really don’t have anything to gain from management for posting here, other than expressing my own opinions as to what is best for Flex and what the IBT will bring if it is voted in. Your logic in your last paragraph is almost incoherent, as I don’t know Mr. K very well (personally) and certainly don’t expect to be in his inner circle and realized that the day he came on board. What I do know is all the LIES posted on this board about management and all the great things that have happened under his leadership….he seems to bring a vision of where the company can go. You slaves to the IBT bring only doom and gloom and end-of-the-world scenarios that DON’T PAN OUT.

One of the weapons in the IBT’s arsenal is to raise envy and jealousy (among other things) to new levels, which are some of mankind's oldest flaws. You do it well, but most mature pilot’s seem to have caught on to your tactics and I now feel this vote may be closer than what I originally felt. So I won’t be using your advice about resume’s, etc but hey, thanks anyway.

Voting NO will raise ALL BOATS come Jan. 1st. Get out of the RUT, folks, do SOMETHING for YOURSELVES and your FAMILIES. Voting in the Local 1108 that will SEND your DUES to a nest of THIEVES in Ohio is not smart. BE SMART, AND VOTE NO!
Enjoy the day,
WL

 

[realityman]

realityman, since you claim you don?t have a horse in this race, I would normally ignore your post. However, you write well and it?s intelligible, even if wrong, so I will indulge you this last message.

First, I don?t generally talk to myself in the morn, though a good BM makes me feel a whole lot better. And you do have a horse in this race, which is to write badly about our Management so as to persuade us to vote in the IBT. Then, it would take us years to recover and vote them out as your present employer did so many years ago after they got to know the real IBT (please, spare me and the other reader the union spin on why you voted them out) while allowing your somewhat faltering organization more breathing room to play catch up with us. Also, we are now a large enough group of pilots so that a union might be a good thing for us?.JUST NOT THE IBT. It?s National Office is a nest of thieves, and will probably go BACK under FEDERAL WATCH next year and to whom LOCAL 1108 sends a portion of EACH PILOT?S DUES every month. Such a sweet deal, huh?

If we vote NO and the Chairman of our company turns out to be SATAN, then we can start an HONEST UNION here a year from the vote count. And, we will have gained all the salary raises for EVERY pilot?not a bad deal, huh? Apparently ALPA will consider us if we are not IBT affiliated, and I?m sure your place would partner with us also, right? It?s all about unity and brotherhood, right?

And Duhhh, one of your more emotional guys here, writes that only the Red Label pilots will get these raises??I think even he knows that management cannot promise raises and things during an organization drive?it?s against the law, Duhhhhhh.

So, I?m gonna give management a chance and believe they will do just fine. They are NOT my enemy. If we kick the IBT out, ALL PILOTS should see a good raise. The marketplace for Pilots is tight and that?s the main factor driving wages, not your union or any union (this is assuming your management wants to stay competitive in the marketplace).
Adios,
WL

Like said, tell yourself whatever you need to. You are either intentionally blind or are management at FO/Flex. It's obvious by how you respond to me. You keep repeating all the things you think KR will do for you, but totally ignore the points I brought up about the things he's already done to the pilot group(s).

KR could have already given you guys the good stuff to head off a union drive. It's only now, that a union drive is under way, that all the promises are happening. No, that's not suspicious at all.

By the way, having a union doesn't mean KR can't still live up to all his promises. Why does having a union mean he can't give everyone big pay raises? He could engage in IBB (interest based bargaining) instead of the more traditional contentious type that management seems top prefer. If KR is sincere, the only difference between a union and no union is the stuff he (supposedly) wants to give is memorialized in a CBA. The whole idea that voting in a union means you won't get anything for a long time is bogus. That's up to your benevolent leader KR.

As for the Teamsters, it's obvious you have no clue what our history with them was. It's not as cut and dried as you paint it. They have us a tremendous start that we would not, could not, have gotten with an in house union at the time or with ALPA. You think Teamsters are only after money? Ha! They are St. Nick compared to ALPA. By the way, when it looked like we might be heading for a strike we had tremendous support from Teamsters members. They will not cross the primary picket line of other Teamsters. That meant that NJA wasn't going to be able to get parts delivered in a timely manner (a lot of delivery drivers, such as UPS, are Teamsters). They weren't going to be able to get planes serviced in a lot of locations (as an example, Signature linemen are Teamsters, and I believe Atlantic is too ). The list is actually fairly significant of who belongs to Teamsters. Even during our informational pickets back then we had support from the Teamsters we wouldn't have otherwise had. They weren't all bad. And at our size back then they were our best option. We simply outgrew them. You folks aren't big enough for an in house union yet, and you won't be a pimple on the butt of ALPA. They'll take your money and you'll get nothing from them.
As I said, you have no real knowledge of any depth about our relationship with the Teamsters. It was a relationship that reached its natural conclusion for the circumstances of the time. But they were very good for us when we were a young union.

Vote how you like. I have a lot of experience with KR. And I've been following his antics since I stopped working for him. I know exactly how it'll go if you don't vote the Teamsters in. And I do have a dog in this fight, but I think this post is long enough.

Good luck FO/Flex pilots! In spite of what WL wants you to believe, you have our support.

 

[ghostrider64]

Warlord, I suggest you compare the Netjets TA to your dreams of a nonunion shop. When you come back here and say, FLOPS has a much better deal by being nonunion, we'll all start listening.

Until then, the bar for unionized fractional pilots has been set, but it was set in 2005! You're all dreaming if you believe voting no is going to raise your collective bar. Time to wake up and become sort of the collection aviation PROFESSION.

For the record having a CBA during the so called economic downturn was a godsend. No reductions in benefits, and the company still achieved profits.

 

[doh]

And I have a challenge for you 993. Why don't you make a list of all the companies in the WORLD where paid employees of that company can go on a company-provided website and call the owner/management names, that they are stupid and their ideas are stupid, etc etc etc and not expect consequences. I know the answer, probably most of the fence-sitters know the answer.....I wonder if you can figure it out?
WL

Here's your challenge warlord: make a list of companies where paid employees of that company can racially abuse another employee, get caught with porn on their company computers, and still keep their job.
And by the way, not one single one of the the WRONGFULLY, ILLEGALLY fired employees called their boss names. As far as criticizing ideas, that's in Kenn's book. We are supposed to trust enough to criticize the organization and name names. So if any one of us thinks an idea is bad, we should speak up. According to Kenn's book only a weak manager can't explain and defend his ideas. In practice we see that isn't the case. The least little criticism cause management to go on a rampage, firing for no cause other than intimidation.

 

[Praetorian]

realityman, since you claim you don?t have a horse in this race, I would normally ignore your post. However, you write well and it?s intelligible, even if wrong, so I will indulge you this last message.

First, I don?t generally talk to myself in the morn, though a good BM makes me feel a whole lot better. And you do have a horse in this race, which is to write badly about our Management so as to persuade us to vote in the IBT. Then, it would take us years to recover and vote them out as your present employer did so many years ago after they got to know the real IBT (please, spare me and the other reader the union spin on why you voted them out) while allowing your somewhat faltering organization more breathing room to play catch up with us. Also, we are now a large enough group of pilots so that a union might be a good thing for us?.JUST NOT THE IBT. It?s National Office is a nest of thieves, and will probably go BACK under FEDERAL WATCH next year and to whom LOCAL 1108 sends a portion of EACH PILOT?S DUES every month. Such a sweet deal, huh?

If we vote NO and the Chairman of our company turns out to be SATAN, then we can start an HONEST UNION here a year from the vote count. And, we will have gained all the salary raises for EVERY pilot?not a bad deal, huh? Apparently ALPA will consider us if we are not IBT affiliated, and I?m sure your place would partner with us also, right? It?s all about unity and brotherhood, right?

And Duhhh, one of your more emotional guys here, writes that only the Red Label pilots will get these raises??I think even he knows that management cannot promise raises and things during an organization drive?it?s against the law, Duhhhhhh.

So, I?m gonna give management a chance and believe they will do just fine. They are NOT my enemy. If we kick the IBT out, ALL PILOTS should see a good raise. The marketplace for Pilots is tight and that?s the main factor driving wages, not your union or any union (this is assuming your management wants to stay competitive in the marketplace).
Adios,
WL

[FONT=&quot]Remember what Confessions of a union buster author Levitt says about the union buster[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s methods? Twist the truth, try to confuse and always, always attack. The post above is a classic example of this. It[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s [FONT=&quot]a [FONT=&quot]litany[/FONT] of[/FONT] all the same lies/distortions we[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]ve been hearing from management since this campaign began. Distortions/gross oversimplifications about why the NJ pilots left the IBT, outright lies about ALPA being better for the Onesky pilots, then the big lie about, [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]just give us a year". He even works in the pay-raise lie. The fact that he is so [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]on message[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] is the giveaway that he[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s a professional union-buster.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The truth is, the IBT 1108 is a pilots union made up of pilots, run by pilots elected from among the pilot group. Although they take 22.5% of the dues collected by the Local, the Flight Options pilots have had very little contact with Teamsters national, other than at the Airline Division level. By contrast, ALPA national takes 75% of the dues they collect from their Local organizations at the individual carriers, often rendering all but the large legacy carriers bargaining units ineffective. Onesky would be a flyspeck for ALPA.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]Just give us a year[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] is the biggest lie/distortion of them all. They know very well that if we vote out the union it will be at least five years until the pilots at Onesky have a CBA. In the mean time they, with the pilots reduced to the humiliation of [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]at-will[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] employment, will be free to do exactly as they wish. More FOK upgrades out of seniority, discipline handed down arbitrarily etc. Also, if it ever came down to it in the future, they know [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]at-will[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] pilots are much easier to bargain with, because [FONT=&quot]they[/FONT] don[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]t have a CBA to protect them during bargaining.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But my favorite is the, [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]pay raise[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] lie. See, Kenn knows it would be illegal for him to flat out promise a pay raise if we vote the union out, so he heavily insinuated it in the video he made, has Phil post it on the VUH and has WL post it on here. What does this tell you about what kind of guy he is? Always working around the edges and the [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]grey areas[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] of the law and outright breaking it when he thinks he can get away with it. Why anyone would want to work for this guy without a enforceable CBA has always been lost on me.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Like Martin Levitt, in the beginning I bet Handschuch didn[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]t even know what he was getting into when Kenn drafted him to carry out the [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]consultants[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT] wishes at Flex[FONT=&quot].[/FONT] But now he[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s in deep and heavily engaged in full on union busting. If Onesky loses the election he[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]ll be gone just like Boisture at NJ and Tyler at Options. Guys like him never survive a loss like this; Kenn will make him the fall guy for everything and move on. And if he wins, he[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]ll be remembered forever by the Onesky pilots and throughout the aviation community as a union-buster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If this is Handschuch positing on here as WL, it[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s clear as the election approaches and a loss for him seems increasingly inevitable, he[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]s getting desperate. Like a cornered animal.[/FONT]

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

wl & his merry gang are going for broke cuz they over extended. They guaranteed a win to uncle & they're panicking. it's almost funny to watch.

 

[flexible]

wl & his merry gang are going for broke cuz they over extended. They guaranteed a win to uncle & they're panicking. it's almost funny to watch.

I pm him to ask a very specific question and he will not answer. I am having concerns a out thus new rl being not good and the way rh seens to be flipping out. I heardhis pickle bar visits are not turning out so good.

I'm not so sure no union is answer anymore. Those videos were not good. Warlord me and you must have watched different videos. I like Mr. Ricci and I like Rick. But those didn't look too good.a lot of politics answers and some disaster answrss. Furlough our of senioriry? No guarantee of what I can't anticipate? More confused than answered.

So much for him being so sure he knows what's right. I don't think asking him an honest answer was so bad a thing to do. My problem is trying to decide if this will really happen or not. I don't have a problem with one more year but now everyone says it's not really just one year. Can someone honestly explain that away from drama of either board please.

I wo u ld nt go so far to say I'm back on fence still a no vote but I would like to be sure it's the right choicrm.

 

[ksu_aviator]

My advice to those at FO/Flex is to maintain your professionalism, complete your lines as appointed and work your tail off to find better employment. Always always remember, you are your best advocate. The union will do what it takes to gain power (under the guise of increased benefits next time). The company will do what they can to make the most money. You must do what you can to maximize your income and quality of life. Don't be disappointed when someone you don't know doesn't act in your best interest. It is highly unlikely to happen.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Do you know Chicken Little?

 

[doh]

I pm him to ask a very specific question and he will not answer. I am having concerns a out thus new rl being not good and the way rh seens to be flipping out. I heardhis pickle bar visits are not turning out so good.

I'm not so sure no union is answer anymore. Those videos were not good. Warlord me and you must have watched different videos. I like Mr. Ricci and I like Rick. But those didn't look too good.a lot of politics answers and some disaster answrss. Furlough our of senioriry? No guarantee of what I can't anticipate? More confused than answered.

So much for him being so sure he knows what's right. I don't think asking him an honest answer was so bad a thing to do. My problem is trying to decide if this will really happen or not. I don't have a problem with one more year but now everyone says it's not really just one year. Can someone honestly explain that away from drama of either board please.

I wo u ld nt go so far to say I'm back on fence still a no vote but I would like to be sure it's the right choicrm.

It is a minimum 5 years to get to a first contract if you vote the union out; AND that is dependent on finding a union who will allow you to join. When we started researching this drive back in December, we talked to TWU, ALPA, and the IBT. TWU only has one above wing group, the Southwest Flight Attendants. They told us they weren't interested because they don't have the expertise for pilot issues. They told us the IBT is the only game in town for our segment of the industry. ALPA wouldn't even return our phone calls. I know at least four of us tried to engage them. They are not interested. The IBT has a fractional local, the 1108. If we vote NO, that local goes away. The only group left would be TMC, with 200? pilots. They would be moved to the freight local, as that is close to the on demand that is TMC's bread and butter. Without a fractional local, and having spent all the money they have on this campaign, they will not be back to represent us.
But let's assume in one year we want to organize, and we have a union who will take us. We have a one year organizing campaign, just like we've had now, and we vote YES. Now we have to get 50% +1 member paying dues before we can elect an MEC. That takes about six months because there is no automatic dues paying until you negotiate your first contract. Now you have to poll the membership about the contract so you can negotiate something everyone wants and will vote to accept. Six more months and you're ready to negotiate.
The average first contract takes about three years to negotiate. And management had an entire year to gut your pay and benefits before your organizing campaign even started five years ago. So that is your starting point! Now RH will say "Why would Kenn do that?". I can't read Kenn's mind, but I do know he promised Flight Options pilots they would be the highest paid pilots in the industry. They voted the union down the first time, and two years later they were the lowest paid pilots in the industry. So their first contract starting point was horrible. I'm convinced we would be in the same boat.
That's why I say we need to vote YES! today, and not wait. Hope that explanation wasn't too long, but that is what a no vote will buy you.

 

[993_Pilot]

993, are you being modest or are you truly not very bright? You seem to write well on this board, kinda like realityman, so I bet your just being modest....

Naw, I'm just a simple country boy, just like SPT.

...Anywho, you say ?A-Friggen Men? is the union rallying cry now?.kinda cute, kinda like ?remember the Alamo? or ?God, Country, and Apple Pie? or something along that line.
Another one would be ?kill a commie for Christ??remember that one?....

http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b645ff6bbfdf62c0b3ca2e4617a3c36/tumblr_mmal19IqXH1s7e5k5o1_1280.jpg

This? I'm not old enough to remember that one. But you have fished out some info on me, I'm less than 60.

... I don?t think anyone (workers or management) knows my identity here (other than Duhhh and a few others who think I?m RH) so I really don?t have anything to gain from management for posting here, other than expressing my own opinions as to what is best for Flex and what the IBT will bring if it is voted in....

I am beginning to believe that you are simply one of the hired guns from Jones/Day, because RH probably wouldn't have the cajones to publicly admit that KR has made mistakes. If he did, and KR found out, he would fire him sooner rather than later... and we all know KR reads these boards.

What I do know is all the LIES posted on this board about management and all the great thingsuke:... that have happened under his leadership?.

Now that's funny right there. Unless by "lies", you mean shining a light on the truth. You, KR and his minions are the ones telling all the lies. Most of the Flight Options pilots have already been through a merger and have heard them all before, so we already know them for what they are... and the Flexjet pilots have been catching on very quickly, as of late. As for "all the great things", are you including the decimation of seniority, because I don't really care if we actually will get supersonic airplanes tomorrow, that pay a million dollars a year. If only the FOK get to fly them, it means nothing. We all know about KR's compensation strategy, it's right there in his book, haven't you read it? If you actually have, please share with us your favorite quote(s).

...I now feel this vote may be closer than what I originally felt...

Another desperate attempt to sway the fence sitters. Care to make a wager on the outcome? I'll happily give you an address where you can mail any amount you care to bet. Just send it to 262 Danny Thomas Place, Memphis, TN 38105.

Voting NO will raise ALL BOATS come Jan. 1st.

Actually, only Voting YES do we have a chance to raise all boats. Voting NO, is only guaranteed to raise the boats of KR, and the FOK. The rest of us will only get to keep what we already have, at best.... if you can beLIEve Mr. Ricci. uke:

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

flex, uncle might be good at explaining his visions, especially when it comes to the OneSky employees, but he falls short on the follow through.

One good way to tell whether someone is truthful is to look at their past performance. Take a look at Bowden’s short video at oneskywatch.org & you’ll see exactly what uncle and his gang did through the RTA merger.

It’s so eerily similar to the current merger, that you can easily substitute ‘FlexJet’ every time you hear Bowden say ‘Travel Air’.

 

[Praetorian]

the video

here is a link to the Bowden video:

https://youtu.be/_dm9k0XHM6A

 

[warlord19]

to: realityman, 993, Ludicrus, et al.
There have been too many posts (election time must be drawing near) to answer them all, so here’s a few general answers to various posts.

Realityman asked what the last 2 years have been like flying for Mr. R….well, none of the 4 things I listed in a previous post i.e. flying broken airplanes, doing illegal trips, etc has occurred, NOT ONCE. NO ROLLING REST blah blah.
I’ve had the OPPORTUNITY to fly new, large body aircraft and even get on the international A/C. We get a free meal a day, a BETTER STIP, free LOL insurance , 57? places to domicile (vs 6 2 years ago), free KCM membership blah blah. How’s your last 2 years been?

From reading the NJ strings here, not so good. I remember (it hasn’t been that long) when NJ was “the “ fractional provider. Now it appears from the posts (under Fractional) that NJ is just another dysfunctional company struggling from day to day. I realize much of the rhetoric is theatre for the negotiations, but I do see the attitudes from many at various FBO’s.

“unions aren’t perfect” someone says. That’s damn profound. Companies and managers aren’t either.

flexible writes that he privately msg’d me about the union, and sure enough he did….the problem was is that his message is incomprehensible. One requirement for having an ATP is having some skills with the English language, but he displayed none…perhaps alcohol was involved??? I don’t know.

Seems everyone at Flex is getting robo-calls telling us if we are a “NO" vote to not bother voting as it won’t matter. ANOTHER LIE. Also, FO pilots are being told if they vote “NO” there will be repercussions….Another reason I just love the IBT.

On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves???
That’s what we will be doing if we vote the 1108 in. NJ voted them out. Let’s save a lot of money and heartache and end their reign now. No respectful organization will go near them.

VOTE NO on the IBT.

WL

 

[Imissmypilot]

Wow, Warlordy you personally have gotten to fly these new planes in the international program?

That wasn't too smart to admit because the list is pretty darn short. Either you just outed yourself or you are full of s***.

I'm actually hoping for full of s*** if only because I'd be able to respect you just a wee bit more than the exclusive knee sore group in which you're trying to claim membership.

Either way, you'd have to admit the opportunities available to you are certainly not available to the majority of flexers or ever will be. Your argument fails all over the place.

Even your sycophants (as illiterate as they are) are seeing through the bs. Even you must recognize this because, like a cornered rat, you attack instead of assist the only pilot left here willing to give a damn about your opinion.

It was less pathetic to think you were RH. At least then I could understand where you were coming from: management willing to do anything to prove his worth and save his job. Instead it looks like you're just one of the usual arseholes, who now they've got theirs, don't give a rat's ass about anyone or anything else.

Knowing this, I will gladly and with pride cast my vote for the teamsters who stand diametrically opposed to your self serving and obnoxious agenda. They might not be perfect but your post today put me at peace about my dance partner better than any other proof I've ever needed.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

WL
On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves??? It takes one to know one. We have been getting robbed for too long, so I'm a YES vote. Delay only helps one side, so I'm going to try to be the first one to send in my vote.

 

[993_Pilot]

to: realityman, 993, Ludicrus, et al.
There have been too many posts (election time must be drawing near) to answer them all, so here?s a few general answers to various posts....

Posting the exact same thing in 3 different threads, huh? Are you getting lazy, or just giving up, because you know you've lost?

...Realityman asked what the last 2 years have been like flying for Mr. R?.well, none of the 4 things I listed in a previous post i.e. flying broken airplanes, doing illegal trips, etc has occurred, NOT ONCE. NO ROLLING REST blah blah.

That is great, he is getting smarter, but it isn't because of KR's generosity, it is only because the union has been holding his feet to the fire for the last 8+ years. His history shows differently, and if he ever got the chance to operate without the union... well let's just say that a leopard can't change it's spots.

...I?ve had the OPPORTUNITY to fly new, large body aircraft and even get on the international A/C....

So are you actually senior enough to hold this "new, large body aircraft" (IF they awarded them by seniority) or did you have an "opportunity", because you were willing to step on the backs of others to get there?

Come on WL, Do you really think that KR is picking the pilots for the G450's because they are smarter, more experienced or better pilots than everyone they bypassed? Sounds like it has personally worked out well for you, but do you really think that Mr. Ricci is treating ALL his employees fairly?

What you lack, is the history of having worked for the man for 15+ years as a lot of the Options pilots have. We have heard his lies and big promises before. Unfortunately, a lot of his investors from the ranks of the Flexjet customer list have not. I suspect the money for your STIP went to pay off the investors, so he can keep his seat, because if he misses a few, he could find himself out, regardless of what he tells the pilot group.

Have you at least read your master's book, "Management By Trust"? What did you think of it?

How do you reconcile all the lies KR has told?
- I was military trained
- I worked at Northwest Orient
- I was Bill Clinton's personal pilot
- I intend to keep the companies separate
- I didn't know about the STIP
- I will return the 401k match when we recall all the furloughs.
... and so many more

I know, you are going to say we lied about what we said would happen, but here is the difference. A lie is an intentional deceit, and if some of us were wrong about what would happen it was not intentional. His lies were blatantly intentional and intended to deceive, whereas we were telling you what to expect, based on his history. Obviously KR has gotten smarter, but you are also certainly smart enough to see that what KR is doing with Red Label aircraft, and especially the Large Cabin International aircraft. His new bonus program is a perfect example of how he intends to get the pilots to pressure themselves and each other into operating in the grey areas by giving incentives for things like dispatch rate, and airline costs. You have no legal way to control the dispatch rate of the aircraft, it's either broken or it's not. How do you keep your airline cost's down, you work longer tours, but it will be your "choice". If his history is any indication, those bonus targets will be very hard to reach.

KR is trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip, and he want's us all to feel good about it or be too scared to speak up, and/or get frustrated and leave so he can hire a young naive pilot to take our place. KR needs a check and balance, and a union is just that. A union ensures a level playing field for all, no playing favorites. That's why I am going to vote YES.

 

[warlord19]

Imissmypilot, your THE prime example of IBT mentality.

Threatening me with being “outed” because someone has the gaul to stand up to you and you fellow lemmings….truly pathetic. I would “out” myself if I knew your fellow lemmings wouldn’t be calling at midnight, sending all kinds of terrific messages and e-mails, lighting sacks of dog do-do on my porch, etc but your lovely IBT union doesn’t have the best reputation now, does it?

Also, you appear to be full of bile and hatred, which also makes you one of the top 5 candidates for “ideal unionist”.

I notice that NO ONE HERE has answered the last question I posted…wonder why that is? Also, no comments about all the robo-calls to PRIVATE NUMBERS being made by your illustrious bro’s/sistuhs. For your convenience, here is the comment and question again.

Quote:
Seems everyone at Flex is getting robo-calls telling us if we are a “NO" vote to not bother voting as it won’t matter. ANOTHER LIE. Also, FO pilots are being told if they vote “NO” there will be repercussions….Another reason I just love the IBT.

On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves???
That’s what we will be doing if we vote the 1108 in. NJ voted them out. Let’s save a lot of money and heartache and end their reign now. No respectful organization will go near them.
unquote

I’m sure happy you are at peace with yourself and you think you have a good cha cha partner. Maybe some of the smarter FO folks will be at peace with themselves when they can provide more things for their family by receiving much higher salaries, 401K matches,etc etc come Jan. 1st by VOTING NO in the coming weeks.
Sleep Tight,
WL

Oh wait. I just see GC is the first fool to admit he will be happy to send his dues to the Nest….any more???…..I know their’s several of you out there.