A challenge to the Flexjet Pilots on the fence or against a union

[dime line]

WL
On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves??? It takes one to know one. We have been getting robbed for too long, so I'm a YES vote. Delay only helps one side, so I'm going to try to be the first one to send in my vote.

Nest of Thieves.....401k match......were being robbed by a nest of 1 thief

 

[realityman]

Imissmypilot, your THE prime example of IBT mentality.

Threatening me with being ?outed? because someone has the gaul to stand up to you and you fellow lemmings?.truly pathetic. I would ?out? myself if I knew your fellow lemmings wouldn?t be calling at midnight, sending all kinds of terrific messages and e-mails, lighting sacks of dog do-do on my porch, etc but your lovely IBT union doesn?t have the best reputation now, does it?

Also, you appear to be full of bile and hatred, which also makes you one of the top 5 candidates for ?ideal unionist?.

I notice that NO ONE HERE has answered the last question I posted?wonder why that is? Also, no comments about all the robo-calls to PRIVATE NUMBERS being made by your illustrious bro?s/sistuhs. For your convenience, here is the comment and question again.

Quote:
Seems everyone at Flex is getting robo-calls telling us if we are a ?NO" vote to not bother voting as it won?t matter. ANOTHER LIE. Also, FO pilots are being told if they vote ?NO? there will be repercussions?.Another reason I just love the IBT.

On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves???
That?s what we will be doing if we vote the 1108 in. NJ voted them out. Let?s save a lot of money and heartache and end their reign now. No respectful organization will go near them.
unquote

I?m sure happy you are at peace with yourself and you think you have a good cha cha partner. Maybe some of the smarter FO folks will be at peace with themselves when they can provide more things for their family by receiving much higher salaries, 401K matches,etc etc come Jan. 1st by VOTING NO in the coming weeks.
Sleep Tight,
WL

Oh wait. I just see GC is the first fool to admit he will be happy to send his dues to the Nest?.any more????..I know their?s several of you out there.

Funny stuff right there!

You keep throwing NJ's out as an example of why the FO/Flex pilots shouldn't go with the IBT. Funny thing is, we are the PRIME EXAMPLE of why you SHOULD go with IBT. We didn't just up and start our own successful in house union. At one point in history, not really all that long ago, we were too small for our own union (fighting a wealthy corporate owner requires more resources than what a relatively small group can put together), and other unions wouldn't bother with us (even ALPA). IBT gave us a great start down union road! We simply outgrew them. They continued to think of us as a small, relatively powerless force that could only achieve small gains. But we had morphed into a very powerful fighting force seeking much larger enhancements. So we went our seperate ways. Not a bad thing. But to be very clear here, we would never have become what we did without the start provided by being with the IBT. They served a very valuable role in becoming who we are. FO/Flex pilots have a lot of potential. But they aren't going to start out where we are now. Those are unattainable expectations. They can get here, but must be willing to fight their way up. And the IBT will give them the leg up they need.

As for mistakes, yes unions make them. And so do management teams. But there's a big difference between making a mistake and intentionally lieing. KR's promises and lack of follow through regarding the 401K match is only one of many examples of him lieing, not making a "mistake".

And you once again ignore the fact that voting in a union doesn't mean KR can't provide what he's promised. There is nothing stopping him (unless he's *gasp!* lieing) from following through on all his promises through a contract. If he REALLY wants to give raises and 401K matching and everything else then it can be in the CBA. There is NOTHING that says reaching an agreement on a contract has to be contentious. KR is the only one who decides how it will go. It could be accomplished very quickly. Again, it's up to KR.

FO/Flex pilots, please consider the fact that all the jobs in aviation that are the most desirable to work at are almost all exclusively union jobs. Why do you suppose that is? Just compare the compensation at companies with no union or weak unions to those with strong unions and the reality can't be denied. YOU can have a strong union too and MAKE your job one of the best in the industry. It's up to all of you. But you have to start somewhere (it's never at the top). The IBT is a good start. Wil you trust in them and yourselves, or will you trust in KR to just give it to you out of his be benevolence (I just threw up in my mouth a little at that last part). Good luck!

 

[Imissmypilot]

Whatever, warlordy. My issue with you outing yourself was two fold and had nothing to do with union mentality.

On the one hand you outed yourself on a board known to be frequented by your messiah and you have said some things to his "brass ear" I think you will regret.

On the other hand, full of glee and delight for me but should be of concern for your cause, is by "outing" yourself you have proven (if you're not RH) to be one of those that "got theirs" and no one should listen to a ********************ing word you say because now we know this is about you and your global. You have not a shred of respect from anyone you think might listen. Man, you'd actually get more respect if you were RH instead of one of the red label fellators.

I'm not "union", I'm a pilot who sees through your smoke and mirrors you and your sort are famous for. What a d***** you really are. Thank god I'll never have to share a cockpit with you. Score one for dingy metal.

 

[Praetorian]

On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves???
That?s what we will be doing if we vote the 1108 in. NJ voted them out. Let?s save a lot of money and heartache and end their reign now. No respectful organization will go near them.

More lies ^^^

NETJETS PILOTS SUPPORT FLEXJET, FLIGHT OPTIONS IN UNION ELECTION

Unionization raises standards for all fractional pilots

(COLUMBUS) ? An enduring commitment to mutual cooperation and assistance continues today as NJASAP pledges to support Flexjet and Flight Options pilots in their efforts to form a union. The NetJets
Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots or NJASAP represents the 2,700-plus pilots who fly in the service of luxury carrier NetJets, Inc., a Berkshire Hathaway subsidiary (NYSE: BRK.A and BRK.B). ?This vote is a historic opportunity for our Flexjet and Flight Options peers,? NJASAP President Pedro Leroux said. ?By choosing Teamsters Local 1108 as their labor advocate, they merge their bargaining power, positioning them to preserve what is best about the two carriers and to make necessary
improvements to their wages and work rules through the collective bargaining process.? When Flexjet and Flight Options parent company One Sky Flight, LLC, announced plans to merge the carriers, Union leaders and advocates sprang into action. The Cleveland-based Flight Options employs
approximately 380 pilots, who are represented by Teamsters Local 1108. Flexjet?s 300-plus pilots are not currently part of a union; however, an upcoming election could change that: The National Mediation
Board will supervise a representation election scheduled to begin tomorrow. If, at its Dec. 15 conclusion, the pilots vote in favor of a union, then the groups will be combined beneath the Local 1108 umbrella.
?No professional pilot, especially during and after a merger, can afford to be without a union,? Leroux emphasized. ?This is an undeniable truth that has been borne out time and time again in aviation ? a fact I
am confident our Flexjet and Flight Options peers understand.? Without the benefit of a professional advocate, management teams, he continued, maintain the upper hand, and this is why they fight tooth and nail to keep unions off property. One Sky has been no different: Executives have waged a rigorous anti-union campaign to influence the outcome of the election. ?It is vital the Flight Options and Flexjet pilots stand strong in the face of anti-union tricks like conveniently timed pay increases, promises of benefit improvements, threats of retaliation, and efforts to portray Local
1108 as a meddling outsider,? NJASAP Vice President Paulette Gilbert explained. ?What management gives during the representation election, they can just as easily take away absent a labor agreement supported by a strong union.? The NJASAP Executive Board and Membership have long viewed cooperation and mutual assistance efforts as critical to improving the safety, pay, benefits and working conditions of all pilots employed in the specialized fractional market. Acting otherwise, as history has shown, thrusts crewmembers into a race to the bottom that lowers standards across the board. ?Pilots must join together to protect and enhance the
profession regardless of who might sign our paychecks,? Leroux said, ?This is why NJASAP unreservedly supports Local 1108 in the election and urges every pilot to vote in favor of the International Brotherhood
of Teamsters.?

 

[993_Pilot]

...I notice that NO ONE HERE has answered the last question I posted?wonder why that is? ...

And I noticed that you didn't even answer a single one of the questions that I asked you in my last post... wonder why that is?

...On principal, would you knowingly send a portion of your dues to a nest of thieves???...

Yes. I don't always like what congress does with my money, but I pay my taxes anyways. As for the IBT, they were released from 25 years of federal oversight, and while there was an isolated instance of the Ohio Congress being recommended to be placed under a trustee, that is hardly representative of the 1.2+ million members today, and it is being dealt with by IBT national.

For the sake of argument, let's assume for a moment that we get absolutely nothing for the 25% of our dues that go to IBT National (which is far from true). Would I still feel like I was getting my money's worth from the IBT Local 1108? My answer would be an unequivocal YES. I bet you that most of us feel this way.

....Also, no comments about all the robo-calls to PRIVATE NUMBERS being made by your illustrious bro?s/sistuhs. For your convenience, here is the comment and question again.

Quote:
Seems everyone at Flex is getting robo-calls telling us if we are a ?NO" vote to not bother voting as it won?t matter. ANOTHER LIE. Also, FO pilots are being told if they vote ?NO? there will be repercussions?.Another reason I just love the IBT....

I can't really comment about the content of the calls too much, because I wasn't even aware they were happening, nor am I confident about the accuracy of that statement. However, of course there will be repercussions and terrible implications for all of us. There are repercussions regardless of which way the vote goes, but a No vote would give KR unchecked freedom to continue to destroy seniority, and bring back the good ol' boys club.

....Maybe some of the smarter FO folks will be at peace with themselves when they can provide more things for their family by receiving much higher salaries, 401K matches,etc etc come Jan. 1st by VOTING NO in the coming weeks...

So tell us why you actually think any of those things will come to fruition? Where you actually told these things by someone in management, or just relying on the grapevine? Here is the problem for all of the Flight Options pilots, we have heard these types of false promises before, during the Travel Air merger. Guess what, they mostly turned out to be lies... or maybe we really are the highest paid pilots (Cough, Cough)

Vote YES !

 

[993_Pilot]

WL,

We can all see that you have logged in, but are simply choosing not to respond. I wonder why that is? Giving Up in the eleventh hour?

Could it be because you know that you don't have the seniority to hold the new large body aircraft, and publicly admitting it will force you to face the music about stepping on your co-workers backs to get ahead? ... Or are you just afraid that having a union will ruin all your future "opportunities"?

Why won't you answer the questions about how you reconcile all KR's lies?
(Hint: Several are listed above, but feel free to bring up the ones I didn't post)

Why won't you tell us if you have even read "Management By Trust"? ... and if you have, tell us why you buy in to KR's philosophy about how to run a company?... or is it just all about you?

You are losing credibility by the hour here.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[warlord19]

Mr. 993
Thanks for wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving…I wish the same to you (and yes, I realize you’re real sincere). Are you deep-frying one of the ole birds this year? It’s different.

You say “We can see that you have logged in, but….blah blah”. Did you mean “I can see” or do you have all your little minions spying for and reporting back to you? Do you spend most of your working hours on this site trying to block opposing opinion? Interesting.
Wonder why you feel that necessary.

Actually, I read your drivel, take a screen pic, then answer off line after thinking about it
and chosing, hopefully, the best response. Do you give any thought to your answers?

You ask if I’ve read “Management by Trust” and the answer is no. Neither have I read “The Art of the Deal” or “50 Shades of Grey” or any number of books. I do like Dr. Scarpetta books…have you read any of them?

If I’m losing credibility with a union string here, well, that’s life. Did you take a poll or is that just your opinion?

TODAY should be the day when the ballots arrive to many homes. I’m sure MOST folks have made up their minds by now, but if you haven’t, VOTE YOURSELF A BIG PAY RAISE, A 401K MATCH, AND START RE-ESTABLISHING A CULTURE OF MUTUAL RESPECT. ALLOW THE COMPANY TO GROW WITHOUT THE HUGE DRAG THE IBT PUTS ON EVERY COMPANY IT HAS INFESTED. I’VE WORKED MANY YEARS AS AN AT-WILL EMPLOYEE, AS DO THE GREAT MAJORITY OF WORKERS IN THE US. GIVE DAC A YEAR….MANAGEMENT HERE IS NOT THE ENEMY. VOTE NO!

Hope everyone takes Thanksgiving off and actually gives thanks for our great country.
WL

 

[flex*wife]

Mr. 993
Thanks for wishing me a Happy Thanksgiving?I wish the same to you (and yes, I realize you?re real sincere). Are you deep-frying one of the ole birds this year? It?s different.

You say ?We can see that you have logged in, but?.blah blah?. Did you mean ?I can see? or do you have all your little minions spying for and reporting back to you? Do you spend most of your working hours on this site trying to block opposing opinion? Interesting.
Wonder why you feel that necessary.

Actually, I read your drivel, take a screen pic, then answer off line after thinking about it
and chosing, hopefully, the best response. Do you give any thought to your answers?

You ask if I?ve read ?Management by Trust? and the answer is no. Neither have I read ?The Art of the Deal? or ?50 Shades of Grey? or any number of books. I do like Dr. Scarpetta books?have you read any of them?

If I?m losing credibility with a union string here, well, that?s life. Did you take a poll or is that just your opinion?

TODAY should be the day when the ballots arrive to many homes. I?m sure MOST folks have made up their minds by now, but if you haven?t, VOTE YOURSELF A BIG PAY RAISE, A 401K MATCH, AND START RE-ESTABLISHING A CULTURE OF MUTUAL RESPECT. ALLOW THE COMPANY TO GROW WITHOUT THE HUGE DRAG THE IBT PUTS ON EVERY COMPANY IT HAS INFESTED. I?VE WORKED MANY YEARS AS AN AT-WILL EMPLOYEE, AS DO THE GREAT MAJORITY OF WORKERS IN THE US. GIVE DAC A YEAR?.MANAGEMENT HERE IS NOT THE ENEMY. VOTE NO!

Hope everyone takes Thanksgiving off and actually gives thanks for our great country.
WL

Warlord, in all sincerity and absolutely no vitriol intended, aren't you at all concerned regarding your responsibility for people's lives when you advocate positions despite not having done your due diligence? Reading his book should of the most basic tasks - good lord even Kenn asked everyone to do it. This isn't even my job and I did it so I knew what my husband had to look forward to. My assessment when finished? I begged him - begged him to find other employment.

Making a rash ill informed decision on your own is one thing but you are championing a cause for a man you know nothing about. You are leading lambs to slaughter and being cavalier. That is stunning to me.

His book not only displays his complete lack of insight into the lives of pilots and their families, he actually advocates positions that are diametrically opposed to the promises you are asking others to rely on.

Are you aware of his personal philosophy regarding pay structure? If you were, you would realize what you have to look forwars to is a pay decrease for 80% of the pilot group and outstanding compensation for about 20%.

Are you aware of his personal philosophy for how he picks his 20%? If so, you'd be ashamed to be associated with them.

I could go on but right now I just stunned with your irresponsibility. I used to be irritated with you or just chalked you up to being a blowhard with a on a mission but the reality is worse.

Honestly and once again without vitriol, what you have admitted to is extreme sociopathy if not worse. I'm not bashing, im actually very sad right now. It almost moves me to tears to see the total lack of regard for your influence or words. Please, in all sincerity I am asking you to prove me wrong in my assessment.

Trying to lift my jaw up off the floor. I don't know if I can have a good Thanksgiving with the possibility of families being swayed by your absolute disregard for decency and due diligence. I hope you get help. The turkey can wait. Go get help now.

 

[warlord19]

none

Flex*wife?, what a joyous surprise to see you posting again?.last time you posted here, you and your ?husband? were bound on a new adventure or something like that. You had ?moved on? but apparently, not. I?ve read your post twice now. After the first reading I thought you were trying to be funny or something, but on the 2nd reading I thought you might be half-way serious, and so I was suddenly overwhelmed with guilt and self-loathing and started crying and bawling and slinging snot and whipping my back with willow limbs and such, trying to figure out why you would say such things. I?m OK now.

Anyways, you seem to think my not reading Mr. R?s book is a mortal sin or something. Perhaps. Have you read Mr. J. Hoffa?s tome ?How to Demonize Management, Destroy Reputations, Destroy a Culture, and Propagate the Big Lie?? Probably not.

Did you receive your advanced degree in psychology while away? You seem to paint folks that disagree with you with a broad brush and label them sociopaths. You and the National democrats must study at the same academy?PC U. (get it)?

Anyhow, if your side loses by choosing to vote with their head, you will have called all those folks sociopaths also?..that?s a lot of sick people in one place. Do you really want to do that? You might want to get on that boat and sail away again. If so, au revoir.

I sure hope you get over the blues?lot?s of folks get that way during the Holidays.
WL

PS: RAISE ALL BOATS IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS BY VOTING NO. A YES VOTE INSURES YOU FO FOLKS WILL BE STUCK IN YOUR RUT FOR THE NEXT 2-3+ YEARS.
DON?T DO THAT TO YOURSELVES. USE YOUR HEADS, GIVE MANAGEMENT A YEAR TO PROVE THEMSELVES..YOU WILL HAVE ACHIEVED PARITY WITH FLEX IN JANUARY BY VOTING NO AND BE PAID MARKET WAGES (FLEX) RATHER THAN THE IBT SCALE YOU?VE BEEN AT FOR SO MANY YEARS. IF AFTER A YEAR YOU STILL THINK YOU NEED A UNION YOU CAN START WHERE YOU?RE AT THEN. OR, CONTINUE TO BE THE LOWEST PAID PILOTS IN THE FRACTIONAL WORLD FOR THE NEXT 2-3+ YEARS. IT?S YOUR CHOICE. USE YOUR HEADS.

Hope everyone enjoys their family and food tomorrow that aren?t working?.Maybe help someone who is not as fortunate as us. We can start this ?discussion? again Friday.

 

[flex*wife]

No Warlord it might no longer be a focal point in my life but I've been paying attention. I guess still caring about the dozens of families we met during our time is some type of character flaw in your eyes.

Your hubris is astounding.