A challenge to the Flexjet Pilots on the fence or against a union

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So Warlord, when are you going to answer exagony˙s simple questions?

 

[Honorstudent]

So WL if the Union Vote passes on the 15th, will you resign?

 

[993_Pilot]

It?s getting late and been up a while but here?s a few comments for the various posts:

Many comments were made about the 2002 broken promises?.that was 13 years ago?.are you telling me that someone, anyone, would continue working for a company that corrupt for 13 years(today)?.I dunno, maybe some of you would. I do know I only hear one side of the story from proven liars with a big agenda to fill, so your ?stories? don?t hold much water for me.

?So you actually support having a union?? I?ve said on this board several times I?m not anti-union, just ANTI-IBT, and that there are companies that need unions, especially in past times. That point seems to go over your heads. Nowadays unions are rejected by all kinds of workers because workers have figured out how corrupt and inefficient most unions are. Japanese and European unions work with management and produce superior products. Would you rather drive a Chevy Impala or BMW?their about the same price. All I?m saying is the IBT is a poisonous, management-hating entity that will do and say anything to get a foot in the door. I see and hear this every day. They have torn my company apart (please save your platitudes for someone else) and encourage this ?give it to the man? attitude that will cause the company to falter and eventually fail if they are voted in. It?s not surprising the NJ folks want them in our company?it would give their faltering operation a huge boost to tell potential clients the competition voted in the IBT.

And finally, the stupidest thing I?ve seen posted her yet??this isn?t personal?. You?re right? it?s way beyond personal. Calling management stupid, ignorant, Hitler etc is way beyond personal.

If FO/FLEX pilots would like to gain some semblance of a culture and start making market wages and reap the benefits from working with management you need to VOTE NO. Management is not the enemy. This culture destroying misguided gang of hooligans is your true enemy. You have an opportunity to throw off their shakles and enjoy the fruits of your labor soon. Vote them in and your insured of years of below par everything and will find yourself in a race to the bottom. It?s your choice. VOTE NO!
WL

Bluenose addressed this pretty well, but we have lived it once already, and we already know how KR operates without a check & balance, whereas you have no earthly idea or firsthand experience. And yet, against all reason, you would rather listen to and believe the visions of an egomaniac whose book you can't even be bothered to read. I would submit that the only one misguided here is you WL. You have to know that for the vast majority, the vote is already done, and while you go on ad-nauseam about the typical management talking points, you still won't answer the hard questions that have been asked... or maybe you just forgot, so here they are again:

How do you reconcile KR's lies?
- I was military trained
- I flew for Northwest Orient
- I was Bill Clinton's personal pilot
- I intend to keep the companies separate
- I didn't know about the STIP
- I will return the 401k match when we recall all the furloughs
- I will always have the highest paid pilots
Go back a decade and point to one single instance where 2 pilot groups were merged via DOH by the IBT, to prove to us that YOU aren't a liar.
Do you think it is fair the way the Large Cabin International Red-Label pilots are being chosen? Why?
Do you have the seniority to hold the new large body aircraft if it were awarded that way?
Why do you believe voting NO will lead to a raise & 401k match on January 1, did you hear that from a reliable source? Who?
Do you agree with KR's overall compensation strategy? Do you even know what it is?
You haven't read your masters book, and you haven't worked for him for very long, so why should your opinion carry any weight compared to hundreds of pilots who have?

Have a say in your future & support the IBT 1108 !!!

 

[exagony]

Warlord 19,
I'll repost until you answer.

WL,
We are still waiting for the copy of the transcripts that proves that you didn't say " that you thought it would be insulting to the dog if someone sent dog feces through the us mail to the IBT1108 Office". Please provide the transcript to prove you are not lying.

Please provide the names of companies in recent history that the 1108 represented that merged lists via DOH. Names of companies and dates please. You have been spouting off about how the SLI is going to be date of hire because you claim its how the 1108 has always done it. Please back up your claim with the companies and dates, otherwise it will just prove you have no credibility.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Warlord,
I'm also waiting for an answer as to when, in recent history, the Teamsters merged two pilot groups based on DOH? Since you said that was their policy, it shouldn't take long to share that information.

 

[Brit]

So WL if the Union Vote passes on the 15th, will you resign?

Don't think he or she will resign, but they might
insist that options pilots start pressing their shirts
and tucking them in. The slob I talked with in
Houston today sure wasn't representing the group
very well. Just my two cents. Oh...before I'm attacked,
I voted YES.

 

[el raton]

At this point, I think the "no" voters have won.

 

[Praetorian]

At this point, I think the "no" voters have won.

:laugh: It will be ok dude. ALL the FO pilots are voting yes. We've seen this movie before.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

At this point, I think the "no" voters have won.

I hope not. If the no vote wins,we will all lose.

 

[993_Pilot]

I hope not. If the no vote wins,we will all lose.

Not to worry, Praetorian is right, I doubt it will even be close. I predict a 2/3 victory for the "YES" for IBT 1108 crowd. Too bad Warlord19 won't take my bet, because I know a few good charities that could benefit.

 

[warlord19]

Probably everyone on this board has visited the VUH by now. It’s a Teamster’s funded and built site. In it, everyone calls each other Sir and Captain and Mister….it’s a swell place for the MASTER MANIPULATORS of the IBT to give all the visitors there feelings of respect, importance, and togetherness. They are very good at this. Sooner or later, however, the smarter ones figure out how manipulated they have been and make changes. The slower ones need more time or, never get it. And you better NOT disagree with them on anything they proclaim or you’ll have to “prove your position” which MEANS you’ll be shouted down or worse….meanwhile they call management and NO VOTERS names I wouldn’t call a dog. One FPOC fellow regularly posts letters on Yammer written by various member of the IBT that he treats as if they hold the value of the Ten Commandments, when actually most are OPINIONS from various IBT folks that change as often as the wind…in fact, it usually depends on the direction of the winds. That’s really gonna make for good negotiations should this uncivil POS be voted in.

Respect for me is paying market wages or better + normal benefits our profession needs, giving me the tools to do my job, a few protections and procedures that are contained in the FOM’s, Letter of Employment, etc. and stepping out of the way. I don’t pay a cent for these, especially to a corrupt organization. I really don’t care if you don’t like these opinions, but I have the right and obligation to post them here to give some voice to the IDEA that the IBT is NOT a good organization to join.

The time is growing short to vote. I urge all the fence-sitters and those not sure which way to go to give this management team a chance to prove themselves. Again, they ARE NOT the enemy. The IBT is a corrupt protection racket with severe self-control problems. Even some NJ people are sticking their nose into our fight…they want the IBT voted in because it will weaken us substantially and give them a good selling point ie..the competition is represented by the Mule Drivers. The IBT doesn't want management to have a chance to prove themselves because 1) they want your money as soon as possible and 2) they know their LIES will be exposed. HELP YOURSELF….VOTE NO.
WL

 

[warlord19]

Here’s a scenario that will be playing out in the future. Enjoy!

Prospective DAC Customer: "I love your new planes and all the different options available to me(a typical conservative businessman or wealthy individual) you have to offer. My only concern I have and which my friends with NJ tell me is that your pilots have voted in the IBT to represent them. Jimmy Hoffa Jr. is the head of that operation, correct?

Struggling DAC Salesman: “Well, that’s true, but the Local 1108 is a swell organization that (gulp) is here to help us”.

Customer: 'I’ve heard about some of the labor issues over at FO and their general lack of customer care…do you think that attitude will start pervading the Flex pilots as well?”

Salesman: Oh, of course not. In fact we (gulp) expect the Flex attitude to start influencing the FO pilots and improve some of their work ethic.”…picks up a glass of water to sooth his parched throat).
Some of the worst we just pay to stay at home, but the rest are “starting to come around” (a burp followed by another “gulp”).

Customer: "OK, I think I’m beginning to see. You don’t have the NJ number handy, do you?”

Salesman: "Not right offhand. Even though NJ has their own union now, they were represented for many years by the IBT, so it couldn’t be that bad, right?

Customer: “Yea, I’ve researched that. They say they outgrew them….the truth is they got tired of being ripped off and treated like step-children.”

Salesman: “Oh, your just being silly. Call that dufus, uh, Gasoline,no starter fluid, no, Diesel…that’s it. Kind of a loquacious NJ loud-mouth who posts incessantly but has nothing to say. He can tell you how wonderful the IBT is."
WL

 

[Honorstudent]

WL if there are lies to be exposed please tell us we are all ears. So far the only lies that have been told and proven are those by Managment, so if you have some proof of lies being told please by all means let the cat out of the bag. Enlighten us oh might WL.

 

[Diesel]

So WL if the Union Vote passes on the 15th, will you resign?

Guys like him will never quit.

How many NJI guys quit after the integration?

I used to hear in the cockpit all day how "I'm going to quit when the union comes in and starts taking from me."

Funny I'm still flying with those guys.

 

[slowtation capt]

Phil Delis, did you get passed the Warloard19 screen name torch?

 

[doh]

This management has already shown their true colors. Out one side of his mouth Handschuch said it would be "unfair for one transfer to upgrade before all of you [Flexjet pilots]." Out of the other side of his mouth: "this is an opportunity for Flight Options pilots to further their career". There has been so many chances given, and they have taken every time.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

WL "Respect for me is paying market wages or better + normal benefits our profession needs, giving me the tools to do my job, a few protections and procedures that are contained in the FOM?s, Letter of Employment, etc. and stepping out of the way. I don?t pay a cent for these, especially to a corrupt organization. I really don?t care if you don?t like these opinions, but I have the right and obligation to post them here to give some voice to the IDEA that the IBT is NOT a good organization to join."

WL, We had to get the IBT to help us. You were not there, but this company really did treat its pilots poorly in the past. The company got the UNION it deserves. Do I want to go back to being an at-will employee? NO WAY! Thats why I voted YES for Local1108.

 

[warlord19]

That's fine GC, and I'll respect that. However, from what I've seen, heard, and read, the IBT is overwhelmingly bad news and I will be voting NO. But if you believe the IBT helped you ( you got the worst contract in the industry) then vote yes. And, please, spare me all the excuses why it was so bad.
Regards,
WL

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Because it was way better than what FO WAS giving us!!!!! And because KR and all of FO management opened the books and showed them to the IBT lawyers and said that was all of he money available.

 

[The Architect]

No - Vote

...and I will be voting NO.

Walord19, you haven't voted yet?