SWA Removes B737 Type Requirment

[PCL_128]

I won't upgrade ONE day earlier with this deal.

You aren't very good at math, are you?

 

[Ty Webb]

When do you upgrade Ty? $218/hr is right around the corner maybe..

178/hr at AirTran? You know that starting point was altered right? The original number was $152/hr.

Red, I'd be careful about saying that you think it's fair to use the AirTran 2001 rates in SLI negotiations, even though it was 7 years after the Contract became amenable.

Unfortunately, it could come back to bite us in the next merger, when we're four or five years past the amenable date and negotiating the next SLI , and the other team pulls out the SWAPA 2006 Cotnract, and waves those rates at you . . . . Just sayin'.

And, in all fairness, you do know that the AirTran pilots had voted down those rates in a defeated TA, right?

I don't think I'll put in for upgrade until I can at least hold a line. Hard to justify trading a Tue-Thur schedule for reserve, if you have other income.

I do see a lot of my former AirTran brothers bidding to pick up premium time in ANY base . . . . obviously, they're having to go to extremes to make up for the paycut, plus the two months in training.

 

[redflyer65]

You aren't very good at math, are you?

I don't have to be PCL. The seniority generator is very straight forward in regard to the integration. At my level, and my age....I got nothing.

Ty,

I understand what you voted down, but the reality was you were STILL getting paid $79/hr and $152/hr (Sept 2010) respectively when Southwest purchased you guys. I could care less if that was agreed upon in 2001 or 1968.

Good luck in upgrade when you elect to go. I've heard there are around 50-70 FAT guys that found it too much and asked to go back to FO, which really makes the last bid (March) a disaster for anyone under them that could have held it in their place. Whether RSW or FAT guys. Pretty much a goat rope.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't have to be PCL. The seniority generator is very straight forward in regard to the integration. At my level, and my age....I got nothing.

You got something. Every SWA pilot did. It might only be one class quicker, but you'll upgrade slightly faster. That's just a function of the math.

 

[canyonblue]

You got something. Every SWA pilot did.

Please explain to me what the top third of our seniority list got. Don't get stupid in retirement now.

...and the other team pulls out the SWAPA 2006 Cotnract, and waves those rates at you . . . . Just sayin'

Those rates were higher than everyone else back then. I'll play back to the future Biff.

 

[redflyer65]

Are you really that dense Toad?

I was blessed with a 3% bump in global seniority among 8000 pilots after everyone has transitioned. That fades to zero at upgrade.

.....as in nothing.

 

[canyonblue]

Are you really that dense Toad?

The Real Estate Forum must be getting boring.

 

[PCL_128]

Please explain to me what the top third of our seniority list got.

You got a bump in relative seniority which equals increased bidding power. Is it worth much? No. But it's not worth nothing, either.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Somebody needs their toilet fixed in their singlewide, Toad. Better hop to.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[canyonblue]

You got a bump in relative seniority which equals increased bidding power. Is it worth much? No. But it's not worth nothing, either.

No, it's worth nothing to them. They are bidding against the same guys they have been for the past 20+ years. They couldn't care less about who is junior to them, it makes no difference.

 

[redflyer65]

No, it's worth nothing to them. They are bidding against the same guys they have been for the past 20+ years. They couldn't care less about who is junior to them, it makes no difference.

Depending on your base, 3% global seniority bump could equate to MINUS 7-10% in base.

 

[canyonblue]

Depending on your base, 3% global seniority bump could equate to MINUS 7-10% in base.

Not for the top 1/3 of the seniority list, they were not affected at all. I agree that the bottom 2/3 who got a small seniority bump overall may now be farther down the list in their own base. Obviously MCO, BWI, MDW would be the hardest hit for a pilot. That 3% global would indeed be a 7-10% loss in your base. What was that "no Southwest pilot would be harmed" crap again?

 

[humveedriver]

Not for the top 1/3 of the seniority list, they were not affected at all. I agree that the bottom 2/3 who got a small seniority bump overall may now be farther down the list in their own base. Obviously MCO, BWI, MDW would be the hardest hit for a pilot. That 3% global would indeed be a 7-10% loss in your base. What was that "no Southwest pilot would be harmed" crap again?

This is a true statement. Amazing how it's impossible for some people to recognize others misfortunes, simply say "damn. That sucks dude. Sorry". And move on. ATL is starting to grow again. FATs are going through upgrade. Except for USair, you just don't see other merged airlines reliving the civil war on here.

 

[canyonblue]

Amazing how it's impossible for some people to recognize others misfortunes, simply say "damn. That sucks dude. Sorry".

I don't hear it too often I have to say.

 

[ron burgundy]

I went from $178./hr to $155./hr

Anyone that doesn't get that- doesn't want to get it.

Not bitching, just stating the facts.

I also lost my on-line commute, and get to spend a couple of more days each month in a commuter hotel.

Not b!tching, just stating the facts.

What did we get? A more financially secure company, a better work environment, sort of like AirTran was around 2003, when the Contract had amendable for 2 years.

Hard to say for sure which way this one will go.[/QUOT


Welcome to the reality of the industry.
Move to 9 different states to work for 6 different pilot jobs. Start your life over in a new city, new Airline every 3 or 4 yrs.

Ya know what...dig your ipod out of your backpack,insert ear buds..jam on
You deserve it!! you were conceived..therefore entitled!

 

[Ty Webb]

I went from $178./hr to $155./hr

Anyone that doesn't get that- doesn't want to get it.

Not bitching, just statingy the facts.

I also lost my on-line commute, and get to spend a couple of more days each month in a commuter hotel.

Not b!tching, just stating the facts.

What did we get? A more financially secure company, a better work environment, sort of like AirTran was around 2003, when the Contract had amendable for 2 years.

Hard to say for sure which way this one will go.[/QUOT


Welcome to the reality of the industry.
Move to 9 different states to work for 6 different pilot jobs. Start your life over in a new city, new Airline every 3 or 4 yrs.

Ya know what...dig your ipod out of your backpack,insert ear buds..jam on
You deserve it!! you were conceived..therefore entitled!

I don't own an IPod, or a backpack. I was a lineholding Capt for ten years and lost what I did through a merger. Not sure what dog you have in this, or what your point was, if any, but have yourself another cocktail, and rant on, brutha, it's F.I., afterall....

 

[redflyer65]

You shouldn't have lost your seat Ty, that's a given.

But for some to say we (SW) cleaned up is also disingenuous. The only guys that did well were those that upgraded. Those above that gone close to nothing (older carrier), and those below got a small, very small bump in global seniority. No payraise, no stock options...nothing.

I have empathy for those on the other side. There were groups that doubled their salary, those that lost their seats, those that won't upgrade at all, etc. The list goes on and in the end it's over. I hope we, as a group, don't have to go thru that again.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Crocodile tears falling huh Red...
"I hope WE (meaning 'me'), as a group, don't have to go through that again!"

Truly amazing

 

[75 Driver]

At Untidy

Notice nothing about that college degree thing

There has not been a college requirement for decades. There are a bunch of folks that were hired here without it, the negative implication in the metrics used for selection, is easily overcome by already being on the property (MX, Dispatch, etc.), lots of PIC time in Large Aircraft with plenty of Total Time (10000 and above), and of course being in any of the special classifications. (Female, Black, Hispanic, etc.)

 

[pilotyip]

There has not been a college requirement for decades. There are a bunch of folks that were hired here without it, the negative implication in the metrics used for selection, is easily overcome by already being on the property (MX, Dispatch, etc.), lots of PIC time in Large Aircraft with plenty of Total Time (10000 and above), and of course being in any of the special classifications. (Female, Black, Hispanic, etc.)

I know a couple guys from our place that meet none of those requirements and got hired without the magic piece of paper. But they were great sticks, and great guys, fun to around, and we all know that the college degree has nothing to do with being a fun guy to be around. And SWA is smart enough to recognize real talent when they see it regardless of hte college degree thing.

 

[redflyer65]

Crocodile tears falling huh Red...
"I hope WE (meaning 'me'), as a group, don't have to go through that again!"

Truly amazing

Amazed at what Bill? You off your meds again?

I'd rather none of us go through it....that includes all on the seniority list, not just me. Maybe that's the way you feel about your seniority list brothers. All about you?

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth though. You couldn't be farther from the truth. And I'm not crying about anything. It was what it was.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Copout Red....

Your game is well known here

 

[redflyer65]

Not trying to get in a back and forth with you Bill, but..

I never thought the AAI guys should have lost their CA seats. I said it from day one. Feel free to go back and check.

As far as another integration? It's not good for anyone, yes, me included or for those around me. I'm surprised you don't agree.

 

[humveedriver]

Not trying to get in a back and forth with you Bill, but..

I never thought the AAI guys should have lost their CA seats. I said it from day one. Feel free to go back and check.

As far as another integration? It's not good for anyone, yes, me included or for those around me. I'm surprised you don't agree.

I don't thinks it's a crime to be pissed off and vocal and then have a change of heart over time. In fact. I think that's the norm.

 

[redflyer65]

I don't thinks it's a crime to be pissed off and vocal and then have a change of heart over time. In fact. I think that's the norm.

Completely agree Humvee.

 

[Tripower455]

No, it's worth nothing to them. They are bidding against the same guys they have been for the past 20+ years. They couldn't care less about who is junior to them, it makes no difference.

Exactly.........

I am well into the top 1/3.

Except for a few scabs inserted on the list in front of me, I certainly wasn't "harmed" (which is definitely much better than the junior guys got), but to say I gained anything in this acquisition is a stretch of the definition......

The only movement I've seen lately is due, completely, to the retirements finally kicking in.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Did anyone really expect that an "acquisition" by their employer would become some sort of twisted Christmas present for themselves?

People on either side of the fence invariably take it in the shorts in some regard.

 

[Ty Webb]

You shouldn't have lost your seat Ty, that's a given.

But for some to say we (SW) cleaned up is also disingenuous. The only guys that did well were those that upgraded. Those above that gone close to nothing (older carrier), and those below got a small, very small bump in global seniority. No payraise, no stock options...nothing.

I have empathy for those on the other side. There were groups that doubled their salary, those that lost their seats, those that won't upgrade at all, etc. The list goes on and in the end it's over. I hope we, as a group, don't have to go thru that again.

Agree completely, Red.

The guys below those that upgraded got hosed.

I have to say, I've been pretty damned happy since I've been on line.... in large part to the welcome I've gotten from pretty much everyone. I've been enjoying coming to work, and I haven't flown with anyone yet that I wouldn't look forward to flying with again.

 

[Tripower455]

Did anyone really expect that an "acquisition" by their employer would become some sort of twisted Christmas present for themselves?

Absolutely not. But for some reason, certain folks keep telling me how much I've gained out of the deal, when I netted zero. And honestly, I am happy with that and consider myself very lucky.