NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[CA1900]

I was forced to join the union. I was forced to pay it money.

No, you weren't.

You chose to come work for a union shop. You went to a non-union alter-ego which was later integrated (by the very management that told you it would never happen), but that doesn't change the fact that NetJets was a union shop long before the first Gulfstream showed up on property.

 

[flexpilot]

I was forced to join the union. I was forced to pay it money. I don't have to agree with everything it does. The relationship I have with the company is not a fight, it is a mutually agreeable relationship. If they don't like my work, they should be able to fire me. if I don't like the way they treat me, I can fire them, which I am working on doing. Forcing NJA to behave in a way I want is not what I want to do. If they become a bad employer, I will do something else. I, above all, would NEVER coerce anyone else to agree with me, for the "common good." Nor would I coerce my employer. The employer/employee relationship should be a voluntary one, based on a mutually satisfactory exchange of value. All this anger and warfare and coercion of company and fellow union members is ugly and unpleasant and irrational. Reminds me of the way Eastern employees were at war with their own employer, while we Delta people watched in amazement and amusement for many years. Eventually they put their employer out of business. As for you guys coercing fellow union members, here is the skinny: if you have to coerce us, your goals and methods must be unreasonable. The "embarass Warren" campaign is childish and disingenuous. I want no part of it. The most radical union people are the ones who post on boards like this, which I have to keep reminding myself (and my wife). The shock with which y'all greet the rare member who has other opinions is pretty funny, cosidering there are a lot of people like me. By the way, if you strike and I join you, I will NEVER mistreat in ANY WAY the people who scab. I would never coerce anybody for any reason, but you would do so, joyfully and with malice.

Have you been following the FlexJet situation?

Just curious what type of job you think NetJets would be without union protection.

If the NJI integration hadn't happened, what type of job would that be now?

Your thoughts on this?

 

[G4dude]

I don't agree with the majority of my elected government officials and how they spend my tax money; i.e., county, city, township, state and federal. What California does, is not representative of the over all value of the union itself.

You like to point out the supposed thug nature of pilot unions. Sokol threatened 300 more furloughs if he didn't get concessions on outsourcing. Sokol swore up and down it was essential to the survival of the company, and gave the union one week. And just before that deadline he's nabbed for front running stock (Stealing), a minute later he's on cnbc begging for forgiveness. That's a thug.

Or, how about this; another NJ management thug. The Twinkie kid (NJ Management), creeping on a secure private, members only board. Making him self privy to inside union info to discredit and damage the union. And what was the response by management via the injunction hearing? Basically do as I say, not as we do. Ethics is a one-way street at NJ. Can you give an example of this pilot union using similar illegal, unethical thug like tactics?

It will be interesting to see how the little general spins this one.

The thug behavior is coercion of fellow members to do what you want.

 

[G4dude]

G4,

In light of you're strategy...what are you going to do when you run out of employers to run away to? You can't run forever, sometimes you just have to fight.

I plan to do something else. Which, given the direction of the company and the behavior of the union lately, I will probably do.

 

[T-1GUY]

Circus clown ???

 

[G4dude]

Circus clown ???

Too old!

 

[G4dude]

I have been reflecting on our conversations, and realize my only problem with unions, really, is the coercion of fellow members. The absolute willingness to persecute members who continue to go to work during a strike is immoral. You have NO idea what these people are facing in their lives financially. Tough negotiations? Go for it. Informational picketing? If you must, but I suspect they do more harm than good. Strike? I just hope it doesn't result in so much damage to the company that jobs are irreparably lost. But mistreating scabs for the rest of their careers? Beyond the Pale, and contemptible. So I am not anti union, just anti thuggish behavior towards other members who cross the picket line or even express an opinion supporting that crossing. Orr even musing about maybe crossing. If I go along with a strike, I would NEVER mistreat a scab for a minute. Unimaginable.

 

[G4dude]

Have you been following the FlexJet situation?

Just curious what type of job you think NetJets would be without union protection.

If the NJI integration hadn't happened, what type of job would that be now?

Your thoughts on this?

Good questions! The Flex situation is so complex, it is difficult to figure out. In order to keep a union out, management there had better treat the pilots right, and quickly. If they don't, an in house union like ours is probably called for, although losses to the Majors would happen en masse, incentivizing the company to improve things fast.

NJA would be a pretty frustrating place, as it is now, but with worse pay. They would have lost a LOT more pilots, and would have raised pay somewhat without the union. NJA probably needed a union like NJASAP. Although I can't understand why anyone who was a good pilot stayed there all those underpaid years. I called them 17 years ago and asked them what they paid, they told me, and I laughed out loud and said no thanks.

The NJI job would be the BEST, as it was before. Pay would be a little less, but quality of life would be better. In my feeble opinion.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I have been reflecting on our conversations, and realize my only problem with unions, really, is the coercion of fellow members. The absolute willingness to persecute members who continue to go to work during a strike is immoral. You have NO idea what these people are facing in their lives financially. Tough negotiations? Go for it. Informational picketing? If you must, but I suspect they do more harm than good. Strike? I just hope it doesn't result in so much damage to the company that jobs are irreparably lost. But mistreating scabs for the rest of their careers? Beyond the Pale, and contemptible. So I am not anti union, just anti thuggish behavior towards other members who cross the picket line or even express an opinion supporting that crossing. Orr even musing about maybe crossing. If I go along with a strike, I would NEVER mistreat a scab for a minute. Unimaginable.

Who said anything about "thuggish behavior"? Has anyone said they're going to burn your car, beat you up, or throw bricks at your windows? I don't think so.

The implication is that people may lose respect for someone based on a contientious decision and deliberate action. That's life - that's accountability. It's awfully hard to be buds with someone you can't respect. Is giving someone the cold shoulder really "thuggish?"

 

[Diesel]

I have been reflecting on our conversations, and realize my only problem with unions, really, is the coercion of fellow members. The absolute willingness to persecute members who continue to go to work during a strike is immoral. You have NO idea what these people are facing in their lives financially. Tough negotiations? Go for it. Informational picketing? If you must, but I suspect they do more harm than good. Strike? I just hope it doesn't result in so much damage to the company that jobs are irreparably lost. But mistreating scabs for the rest of their careers? Beyond the Pale, and contemptible. So I am not anti union, just anti thuggish behavior towards other members who cross the picket line or even express an opinion supporting that crossing. Orr even musing about maybe crossing. If I go along with a strike, I would NEVER mistreat a scab for a minute. Unimaginable.

You suspect more harm than good? You have no experience in this. You're suspecting???

We are still waiting for you to regale the majors section how you think being a scab should be ok.

But unfortunately like our own union message board you are quite and barely log in. I know it actually shows your last login. Crazy huh.

Narrow world you live in. Until hansel does something to you. Then you'll be the loudest on the block.

Free tickets and hotel room for your wife and you waiting in Omaha. Pretty sad an fo has to buy a Gulfstream captain tickets.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Pretty sad an fo has to buy a Gulfstream captain tickets.

At least another Gulfstream Captain bought you tequila....:beer:

 

[Diesel]

At least another Gulfstream Captain bought you tequila....:beer:

Vodka not tequila.

 

[nordo_2]

The thug behavior is coercion of fellow members to do what you want.

You mean like that former union pilot member, a.k.a. screen name 'Twinkie' management thug? Who, unethically, [a court will probably rule illegally gained] access to a private union members only board? Whose sole purpose is to spread dis-information to discredit and damage the pilot union, he use to be apart of. That's a management Thug. Unethical by any measure. Aren't high ethics supposed to be one of management's mantras? A hypocritical thug at that? How do you classify that behavior? What has this pilot union done to mimic management's thug like and unethical behavior that I have described? You like to point out the evil done by pilot unions, so how do you characterize this 'Twinkie' management guy?

 

[Diesel]

You mean like that former union pilot member, a.k.a. screen name 'Twinkie' management thug? Who, unethically, [a court will probably rule illegally gained] access to a private union members only board? Whose sole purpose is to spread dis-information to discredit and damage the pilot union, he use to be apart of. That's a management Thug. Unethical by any measure. Aren't high ethics supposed to be one of management's mantras? A hypocritical thug at that? How do you classify that behavior? What has this pilot union done to mimic management's thug like and unethical behavior that I have described? You like to point out the evil done by pilot unions, so how do you characterize this 'Twinkie' management guy?

Don't forget the company response... It was ok because it's all part of spirited negotiations.

Only good thing is that Twinkie the kid will never be able to see the inside of a cockpit again. #karma

 

[G4dude]

You mean like that former union pilot member, a.k.a. screen name 'Twinkie' management thug? Who, unethically, [a court will probably rule illegally gained] access to a private union members only board? Whose sole purpose is to spread dis-information to discredit and damage the pilot union, he use to be apart of. That's a management Thug. Unethical by any measure. Aren't high ethics supposed to be one of management's mantras? A hypocritical thug at that? How do you classify that behavior? What has this pilot union done to mimic management's thug like and unethical behavior that I have described? You like to point out the evil done by pilot unions, so how do you characterize this 'Twinkie' management guy?

Sounds like bad behavior. Not nearly as bad as ostracizing someone for the rest of his/her career.