NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[Diesel]

Still waiting on your response about the companies proposal. You had time to respond to the other thread.

 

[G4dude]

Good luck with that.

Let me ask you this why do you think the company sent out the proposal that was concessionary in every section? Do you believe you should be paid less? Have less sick days? Have less time off? Have to pay for healthcare?

This is what they out in writing as the selling points. What do you think the fine print says?

It's called negotiations. They come in low, we come in high. Happens all the time. The pilot shortage should allow market forces to keep us from taking a cut, because we would be impossible to replace. The union keeps trying to rile us up by telling us about the early company proposals, when the finished product will be quite a lot better, due to, wait for it, market forces. Our deal will be a compromise between their desire for us to work for very little and our desire to work for a LOT. Getting tired of the Class Warfare Rhetoric, however. How idiotic. We are in the top 7 percent or so nationally for income, and claim we can't feed our starving kiddies and want to shut down the company? Please. And then endorsing mistreatment of anyone who continues to go to work. Shameful and stupid behavior, hooliganism at its finest.

 

[Diesel]

It's called negotiations. They come in low, we come in high. Happens all the time. The pilot shortage should allow market forces to keep us from taking a cut, because we would be impossible to replace. The union keeps trying to rile us up by telling us about the early company proposals, when the finished product will be quite a lot better, due to, wait for it, market forces. Our deal will be a compromise between their desire for us to work for very little and our desire to work for a LOT. Getting tired of the Class Warfare Rhetoric, however. How idiotic. We are in the top 7 percent or so nationally for income, and claim we can't feed our starving kiddies and want to shut down the company? Please. And then endorsing mistreatment of anyone who continues to go to work. Shameful and stupid behavior, hooliganism at its finest.

Ahhh so your argument is that demand will make everything better.

So exactly what do you suggest when your demand scheme doesn't come to fruition? What do you suggest we do next? Will you then change your mind or will there be another middle of the road excuse?

So you think the companies proposal was a low ball offer. How do you explain their tactics of saying if you don't accept this we will stop hiring. Stop aircraft deliveries and stop upgrades? Is that acceptable behavior to you?

It is a take it or leave it proposal. The company has already stated there will be no negotiations off this. Is that acceptable to you?

Seems that you're only angry at one side. Why is that?

 

[G4dude]

Ahhh so your argument is that demand will make everything better.

So exactly what do you suggest when your demand scheme doesn't come to fruition? What do you suggest we do next? Will you then change your mind or will there be another middle of the road excuse?

So you think the companies proposal was a low ball offer. How do you explain their tactics of saying if you don't accept this we will stop hiring. Stop aircraft deliveries and stop upgrades? Is that acceptable behavior to you?

It is a take it or leave it proposal. The company has already stated there will be no negotiations off this. Is that acceptable to you?

Seems that you're only angry at one side. Why is that?

Y'all are just getting riled up over early stage negotiation tactics, that's all. They come in low and try to scare us, we come in high and tell them to pound sand. Gradually we come to an agreement down the road.

 

[Diesel]

Y'all are just getting riled up over early stage negotiation tactics, that's all. They come in low and try to scare us, we come in high and tell them to pound sand. Gradually we come to an agreement down the road.

But the company has clearly stated they aren't interested in an agreement. They have sent out their agreement and they have specifically stated that if we do not accept it they will not buy any new planes, not hire new pilots and not recall furloughed pilots.

Whether you believe they are going to do it or not is irrelevant. You have stated he union is a thug embarrassing the company and Wb. Then what is the company by stating if we do not accept these concessions we will be forced to?

I've asked many questions and the best you've come up with is don't worry mon be happy. It will get done eventually. You don't answer questions on how it will get done. You state that demand will get our contract because the industry is running out of pilots but you have no backup plan. You can't state when the industry will run out of pilots and therefor since the two are tied together when we will get a new contract.

So again I ask you. Why is the company allowed to make very clear threats against our profession. Erode our contact. Demand concessions from us or else. Demand a roi that the company has never been able to achieve in a million years or else.

But the union is thugs and we shouldn't get riled up. This is the early stage.? It's been almost 2 years. Explain to us your background in contract negotiations and why you believe it's the early stage? Explain to us why you are the authority on why we shouldn't get riled up because it will work itself out.

Sorry you're a fence sitter. You don't want to rock the boat. You don't want to be mean. The union is a bunch of meanies. Yet you offer no experience or history in the subject matter.

Yeah I'll just go ahead and "don't worry mon, it'll be alright."

Enjoy the fence. That boys and girls is how you get used to taking it up the ass.

 

[Some guy]

But the company has clearly stated they aren't interested in an agreement. They have sent out their agreement and they have specifically stated that if we do not accept it they will not buy any new planes, not hire new pilots and not recall furloughed pilots.

I missed that email. What day was it sent out? That's a complete 180 from the latest ones I got say we're picking up 40-50 jets this year, recalling the rest as fast as FSI can take them, and then hiring another 180 (or whatever the number was).

SG

 

[Diesel]

I missed that email. What day was it sent out? That's a complete 180 from the latest ones I got say we're picking up 40-50 jets this year, recalling the rest as fast as FSI can take them, and then hiring another 180 (or whatever the number was).



SG

I can't post it here. Sorry.

 

[acaTerry]

Y'all are just getting riled up over early stage negotiation tactics, that's all. They come in low and try to scare us, we come in high and tell them to pound sand. Gradually we come to an agreement down the road.

We are approaching 2 years now...how long should it take?
And remember, it was not the greedy, bad egomaniac pilots who opened this up. The company had that extension and decided to waste a good opportunity to work together through it. I think THAT speaks volumes.

 

[X-rated]

But the company has clearly stated they aren't interested in an agreement. They have sent out their agreement and they have specifically stated that if we do not accept it they will not buy any new planes, not hire new pilots and not recall furloughed pilots.

Look them straight in the eye, tell them to do what they need to, and then never give it another thought. It's a ridiculous and poorly thought out bluff. NetJets and BH make serious money selling new planes and the current owners are sick of the old run down things they ride around in now. If NetJets doesn't buy new planes, they won't keep the customers they have let alone attract new ones. Your salary won't change and the company will earn significantly less. Even if they were completely insane and didn't take the new planes, they still would need to recall to keep the planes they currently have in the air. Attrition is not going to slow anytime soon. So how is this a credible threat to you? They would be smarter to say they will wind the whole thing down. That would be at least somewhat plausible though extremely unlikely.

 

[Diesel]

Look them straight in the eye, tell them to do what they need to, and then never give it another thought. It's a ridiculous and poorly thought out bluff. NetJets and BH make serious money selling new planes and the current owners are sick of the old run down things they ride around in now. If NetJets doesn't buy new planes, they won't keep the customers they have let alone attract new ones. Your salary won't change and the company will earn significantly less. Even if they were completely insane and didn't take the new planes, they still would need to recall to keep the planes they currently have in the air. Attrition is not going to slow anytime soon. So how is this a credible threat to you? They would be smarter to say they will wind the whole thing down. That would be at least somewhat plausible though extremely unlikely.

Obviously. But GIV argument was that the union was acting in thugary and he didn't like it. Yet he refuses to acknowledge what the company has been doing, writing, and telling the pilots.

We all knew. Well those of us that have seen this before that the threats were full of crap. They couldn't do any of the things if they tried. They also lost face by threatening to do so and not follow through.

Taken by itself it means nothing but when you add in some of the odd decisions the company has made in the last year and half it makes for interesting reading.