Furloughed Options Pilots SCREWED??.Again ?

[luckydog]

Here are the reasons our union gave. They sound like good ones to me.

• Accepting a position at Flexjet ahead of a furloughed Flight Options pilot who wants to work there undermines a basic union principle and causes an economic injury to a furloughed Flight Options pilot and their dependents.

• If you accept management?s offer of employment, your terms and conditions of employment at Flexjet are not guaranteed. You are an at will employee. Your wages, benefits and working conditions are subject to change from the moment you start working there.

• The Union cannot represent you at Flexjet. There is no legally binding grievance or arbitration procedure to protect you from unjust discipline or discharge. There is no contractual procedure for addressing training irregularities or check ride failures that could end up in your PRIA record. Management can change your rate of pay with or without notice to you, and even pay you less than a junior pilot in the same equipment and cockpit, which their pay plan suggests they intend to do. When you take a vacation from Flexjet, if ever, it is at management?s total discretion and sick leave policies are subject to change.

• You go to the bottom of the seniority list at Flexjet even if you are more senior than Flexjet pilots and Flight Options pilots and managers who are already working there. Importantly, your position on the Flexjet seniority list could affect your position on the integrated seniority list that will take effect when the two carriers are fully integrated. Flexjet is under no legal obligation to honor your seniority if you go to work there. That is true for purposes of furlough, recall, schedule bidding, vacations, and vacancies. The pay system set forth in the company?s offer makes clear that seniority is not controlling for Flight Options pilots who go to work there. When it comes to Flight Options pilots, Flexjet is free to change the seniority rules with or without notice to you and you have no legal recourse to challenge it.

• As a result of the close corporate relationship between OneSky, Flight Options and Flexjet, any employment or services contract offered to you by DW or any other representative of OneSky or the two carriers is unenforceable because you are already covered by a collective bargaining agreement (CBA), including during any period of a leave from Fight Options pursuant to the CBA.

That's a very scary list, I surprised anyone would leave the protective IBT womb.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I never got an email from the union not to bid. I'll call BS on that one too.

Please read the posts above. Sounds like they are telling you all the reasons not to transition. Did you not get this email, or where you not wanting to release it because it didn't support your lie?

Now one of your own pilots is calling anyone who goes to FJ a scab.

You guys have a great union, can't imagine why anyone would want to leave.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Here are the reasons our union gave. They sound like good ones to me.

• Accepting a position at Flexjet ahead of a furloughed Flight Options pilot who wants to work there undermines a basic union principle and causes an economic injury to a furloughed Flight Options pilot and their dependents.

• If you accept management?s offer of employment, your terms and conditions of employment at Flexjet are not guaranteed. You are an at will employee. Your wages, benefits and working conditions are subject to change from the moment you start working there.

• The Union cannot represent you at Flexjet. There is no legally binding grievance or arbitration procedure to protect you from unjust discipline or discharge. There is no contractual procedure for addressing training irregularities or check ride failures that could end up in your PRIA record. Management can change your rate of pay with or without notice to you, and even pay you less than a junior pilot in the same equipment and cockpit, which their pay plan suggests they intend to do. When you take a vacation from Flexjet, if ever, it is at management?s total discretion and sick leave policies are subject to change.

• You go to the bottom of the seniority list at Flexjet even if you are more senior than Flexjet pilots and Flight Options pilots and managers who are already working there. Importantly, your position on the Flexjet seniority list could affect your position on the integrated seniority list that will take effect when the two carriers are fully integrated. Flexjet is under no legal obligation to honor your seniority if you go to work there. That is true for purposes of furlough, recall, schedule bidding, vacations, and vacancies. The pay system set forth in the company?s offer makes clear that seniority is not controlling for Flight Options pilots who go to work there. When it comes to Flight Options pilots, Flexjet is free to change the seniority rules with or without notice to you and you have no legal recourse to challenge it.

• As a result of the close corporate relationship between OneSky, Flight Options and Flexjet, any employment or services contract offered to you by DW or any other representative of OneSky or the two carriers is unenforceable because you are already covered by a collective bargaining agreement (CBA), including during any period of a leave from Fight Options pursuant to the CBA.

Our vacations don't get changed by management. If I recall you guys are the ones having issues with this.

This is the union grasping at "they can's" and zero "they have's".

The IBT must really like the $$$$$ you guys give them.

 

[luckydog]

Wouldn't it follow that any pilot that moves to FJ would be replaced by a furloughed pilot?

Given the very low number of furloughed pilots that interviewed, and the even lower number of those pilots that were offered a job, saying that transitioning to FJ would cause economic hardship on the furloughed crew members, is quite a stretch

 

[Praetorian]

Our vacations don't get changed by management. If I recall you guys are the ones having issues with this.

This is the union grasping at "they can's" and zero "they have's".

The IBT must really like the $$$$$ you guys give them.

No silly, what they're saying is that anything at FX could be changed at any time for any reason, because you're at-will. They're cautioning FO pilots not to subject themselves to that?

Remember the "Friday afternoon email" I've been talking about?

Btw that one was a bit obvious even for you.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

No silly, what they're saying is that anything at FX could be changed at any time for any reason, because you're at-will. They're cautioning FO pilots not to subject themselves to that?

Remember the "Friday afternoon email" I've been talking about?

Btw that one was a bit obvious even for you.

Accepting a position at Flexjet ahead of a furloughed Flight Options pilot who wants to work there undermines a basic union principle and causes an economic injury to a furloughed Flight Options pilot and their dependents.

Ok, silly, explain how this is not your union TELLING you not to go to FJ.

It "undermines a basic union principle." That sounds pretty clear to me. Kinda sounds like they are saying you are breaking a union law.

Go ahead and spin the theat your union gave you guys any way you like. It's still a threat.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

No one here is on strike.

People in is industry throw the word scab around way to often. It defines a specific action which is no where near happening here.

I understand emotions get heated, but using the word scab when it doesn't apply shows your lack of understanding of what a scab really is. And by definition scab like behavior is a scab. It's black and white,you either are or are not being a scab.

If you really believe an active FO pilot going to FJ is a scab you would need to make sure your union kicked them out for being a scab. The union would then need to exhaust every avenue to have that scab terminated. You would also want to add that name to the national scab list so they could never get another union job in aviation.

Is this really what you are proposing, or are you just emotional and don't really understand what you are saying? I am sure the second is the case.

W, no, nice try, but I have a very good understanding of what a scab is & what is scab-like. Uncle has offered current FO employees spots ahead of furloughed employees. Thanks for the lesson, but I stand by the post. BTW, emotional? On flightinfo, really? No.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

W, no, nice try, but I have a very good understanding of what a scab is & what is scab-like. Uncle has offered current FO employees spots ahead of furloughed employees. Thanks for the lesson, but I stand by the post. BTW, emotional? On flightinfo, really? No.

Scab-like doesn't exist except for in your mind. You either are or are not a scab.

I looked at the scab list and they don't have a separate section for scab-like behavior.

Could you please educate all of us professional aviators on the definition of scab-like behavior since it appears that only you have an understanding of it.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Be glad to: A scab can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions.

So that's partly what a Scab is. Pilots headed to Flex are certainly taking advantage of a labor dispute - no, not a strike, but certainly something of a dispute (& engineered pretty slickly by uncle, I might add) - & walking over the backs of the (furloughed) pilots.

As I wrote yesterday, those pilots moving to Flex aren't scabs. But they sure exhibit some scab-like tendencies & traits.

Now all that being said, W, I think you hold a certain level of respect for the Flex pilots. And while I don't expect you to admit it, I hope for the sake of the Flex pilots, you'll do a little research on those people headed your way - Phenom Phil & "I've got a big belt buckle" Special (Engine Plug) Ed. What's the phrase I'm looking for? Oh yeah: I wouldn't wish those guys on anyone.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Be glad to: A scab can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions.

So that's partly what a Scab is. Pilots headed to Flex are certainly taking advantage of a labor dispute - no, not a strike, but certainly something of a dispute (& engineered pretty slickly by uncle, I might add) - & walking over the backs of the (furloughed) pilots.

As I wrote yesterday, those pilots moving to Flex aren't scabs. But they sure exhibit some scab-like tendencies & traits.

Now all that being said, W, I think you hold a certain level of respect for the Flex pilots. And while I don't expect you to admit it, I hope for the sake of the Flex pilots, you'll do a little research on those people headed your way - Phenom Phil & "I've got a big belt buckle" Special (Engine Plug) Ed. What's the phrase I'm looking for? Oh yeah: I wouldn't wish those guys on anyone.

I have a very high level of respect for the FJ pilots. They are an amazing group of individuals who do a great job every day, just like I am sure the options pilots do.

I always try to give everyone I fly with the benefit of the doubt. I may have heard all kinds of stories, but I have found that about 90% of those are personality conflicts that get exaggerated.

Thanks for the warning, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt like I give every new hire at FJ.