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Furloughed Options Pilots SCREWED??.Again ?

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On a side note, this economy is really starting to pick-up, with the forth coming pilot shortage, I don't think now is the time to piss off your long term highly skillled employee group. In a year or two you may pay dearly for it.

A better option might be to merge useing DOH, or run two different companies with the same pay and benefits. Either way, now is not the time to piss on people's shoes.
 
Are you really so sure? They already did things out of seniority with the Global pilots. You are an "at will" employee. Management has NO requirement to honor seniority.

Date: August 26, 2014
To: Flight Options Pilots

"A Legacy Captain in his 16th Year will stay on the FO scale if hired as a Learjet Captain; and will transition to the FX scale in his 10th Year if hired as a Challenger Captain."

Sounds like a Flight Options pilot won't know what position he's getting until after his name in the hat via "bid."

So, Flight Options pilots put in for the move and then management picks and chooses who flies what. Great deal.


Also, please keep using the word "bid."

As in "bid" over here. "Bid" for the position at Flexjet.

Good stuff for a lawsuit.

This is an excerpt from the letter you received:

4)​A pilot transitioning to Flexjet will retain their Flight Options Seniority number. They will also be given a placeholder position at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. The seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading and pay at Flexjet should they retain their position for an extended period of time. This will also be used to monitor their parallel pay position in order to determine when parity occurs per item 3.

Sounds pretty clear to me. When your new FJ seniority number can hold Captain, you can hold Captain.
 
This is an excerpt from the letter you received:

4)​A pilot transitioning to Flexjet will retain their Flight Options Seniority number. They will also be given a placeholder position at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. The seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading and pay at Flexjet should they retain their position for an extended period of time. This will also be used to monitor their parallel pay position in order to determine when parity occurs per item 3.

Sounds pretty clear to me. When your new FJ seniority number can hold Captain, you can hold Captain.

Sounds pretty clear to me:

"18th year and more at FO includes EOY bonus.
A BJ/PH Captain in his 14th Year will stay on the FO scale
and will transition to the FX scale in his 7th year if hired
as a Learjet Captain; or will transition to the FX scale in
his 4th Year if hired as a Challenger Captain"
 
Sounds pretty clear to me:

"18th year and more at FO includes EOY bonus.
A BJ/PH Captain in his 14th Year will stay on the FO scale
and will transition to the FX scale in his 7th year if hired
as a Learjet Captain; or will transition to the FX scale in
his 4th Year if hired as a Challenger Captain"

Was this out out by the union or management?
 
It was "out out" by Joe Salata, VP of Flight Operations in an email to Flight Options pilots dated August 26. Slowtation's quote is accurate; it was copied verbatim from the email.
 
It was "out out" by Joe Salata, VP of Flight Operations in an email to Flight Options pilots dated August 26. Slowtation's quote is accurate; it was copied verbatim from the email.

I believe the problem is with the terminology.

Maybe the FO pilots coming to FJ will call themselves CAptains, but without a 299 line check (which they will not receive) they will definitely not be a PIC.

I am sorry that your VP put a glimmer of hope in your eyes that you might get to screw the FJ pilots, but that is just not the case.
 
I believe the problem is with the terminology.

Maybe the FO pilots coming to FJ will call themselves CAptains, but without a 299 line check (which they will not receive) they will definitely not be a PIC.

I am sorry that your VP put a glimmer of hope in your eyes that you might get to screw the FJ pilots, but that is just not the case.

It's not about FO pilots hoping to screw Flex pilots. Because none of us are-try to comprehend that. It's KR that's doing the screwing by allowing Options pilots to move to Flex and promoting the possibility of being hired as a LR or Challenger captain.
 
TWA 2 ASA FO;2489353 Maybe the FO pilots coming to FJ will call themselves CAptains said:
Are you the holder of the key for the .299 ride?
You didn't know that or VP put an email out stating "if hired as a captain" but what you can positively state that they will not be receiving .299 rides.
Or is this just you and you stating that you will not give a .299 ride.
 
Are you the holder of the key for the .299 ride?
You didn't know that or VP put an email out stating "if hired as a captain" but what you can positively state that they will not be receiving .299 rides.
Or is this just you and you stating that you will not give a .299 ride.

I can definitely state that I won't give them a 299 ride since I don't give anyone 299 rides. I thought you guys knew everything about me.

I am sorry that letter said what it did. He is NOT the VP at FJ and I don't believe he told you what he was supposed to.

I just don't want a bunch of FO pilots showing up on day one of training at FJ being pissed when they find out they are not going to be captains. That will do no one any good.
 
Nice Try

I believe the problem is with the terminology.

Maybe the FO pilots coming to FJ will call themselves CAptains, but without a 299 line check (which they will not receive) they will definitely not be a PIC.

I am sorry that your VP put a glimmer of hope in your eyes that you might get to screw the FJ pilots, but that is just not the case.

Nice try...

Better yet - this is a publication produced by DW, JW and JS presented to the union just hours before released. Released by the same regardless of who the "from" says in the email.

So, it's from DW, JW and JS at the direction of their superiors.

Note that the announcement sent to Flexjet pilots differs from the announcement sent to Flight Options pilots.

Either way - the language presented to the Flight Options pilots with regard to "Captains" is accurately copied from the announcement.

What will really happen? Who knows - after all, it is an "at will" employment.
 
I cannot believe anyone that still has a job at Options (and has had for the past 5 years) would even consider moving to Flexjet before the furloughed guys (you do remember the guys that had to sit on the sidelines so the company we had could survive through that poor economic time) that are swimming in the pool and have gone through the hiring process and are just waiting for a class date. To think our fellow pilots would not honor that sacrifice made by the people furloughed and would fill vacancies before them sickens me. Some thanks that is!!
 
Nice try...

Better yet - this is a publication produced by DW, JW and JS presented to the union just hours before released. Released by the same regardless of who the "from" says in the email.

So, it's from DW, JW and JS at the direction of their superiors.

Note that the announcement sent to Flexjet pilots differs from the announcement sent to Flight Options pilots.

Either way - the language presented to the Flight Options pilots with regard to "Captains" is accurately copied from the announcement.

What will really happen? Who knows - after all, it is an "at will" employment.

How about someone post the whole message. It is easy for you to take a small section and spin in as you feel fit.

Until the whole message is posted further discussion on this topic will produce nothing but inferrance and speculation.

The ball is in your court.
 
I cannot believe anyone that still has a job at Options (and has had for the past 5 years) would even consider moving to Flexjet before the furloughed guys (you do remember the guys that had to sit on the sidelines so the company we had could survive through that poor economic time) that are swimming in the pool and have gone through the hiring process and are just waiting for a class date. To think our fellow pilots would not honor that sacrifice made by the people furloughed and would fill vacancies before them sickens me. Some thanks that is!!
.........................................Quote. From SkyCat 45...................................


.................................BINGO ! We have a Winner !!.......................
 
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I cannot believe anyone that still has a job at Options (and has had for the past 5 years) would even consider moving to Flexjet before the furloughed guys (you do remember the guys that had to sit on the sidelines so the company we had could survive through that poor economic time) that are swimming in the pool and have gone through the hiring process and are just waiting for a class date. To think our fellow pilots would not honor that sacrifice made by the people furloughed and would fill vacancies before them sickens me. Some thanks that is!!

Thats the truth.
 
It sounds like the Options posters are saying that they are being told that Options crew members "transferred" to FJ will be similar to an off-the-street new hire captain (except for their pay). Is that the thinking over there? If that's the case I'm very surprised that every FO didn't apply.

The story at FJ, as posted on Yammer, is that the Options crew members will be just like any other new hire (except for pay).

We all will be wearing 4 stripes and flying from the left seat soon, but that doesn't mean we'll all be paid as a captain.
 
We all will be wearing 4 stripes and flying from the left seat soon, but that doesn't mean we'll all be paid as a captain.

Do you guys swap seats or do FO's fly from the right seat all the time?

At Options we usually swap seats every other day.
 
As tiresome as I may find TWA's rabid anti-union bias, in the matter of PIC assignment, I believe his information to be correct. I have taken the time to do my homework and speak with the parties involved. The current plan is that the transferring FO pilots will wear 4 stripes and swap seats, but WILL NOT be assigned as legal PIC of the Flexjet aircraft. Upgrades to official PIC status, schedule, and vacation bidding will be determined by the pilot's Flexjet seniority number, which in the case of Captain upgrades, means essentially never, unless there is a massive influx of aircraft there.
 
How about someone post the whole message. It is easy for you to take a small section and spin in as you feel fit.

Until the whole message is posted further discussion on this topic will produce nothing but inferrance and speculation.

The ball is in your court.
Are you purposely telling us to break the confidentiality language of an email sent out written by KR's lawyers through our VP of Ops.

Didn't you go on a rant once about confidentiality of the companies emails.

Oh what do I care, as soon as I can I will, just can't do it from this device at this time.
 
Confidential

How about someone post the whole message. It is easy for you to take a small section and spin in as you feel fit.

Until the whole message is posted further discussion on this topic will produce nothing but inferrance and speculation.

The ball is in your court.

Is that alright now?

Your warned that individuals could get in a lot of trouble for posting internal company communications.
 

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