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What Heavy jet will SWA buy?

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Quote it in 4.5 then superstar

I always pay my bets


I have no doubt you would.

Just commenting on the fact that you would bet that by 2019 you'd be flying widebodies and then a few months later state that you would be surprised if they showed up in five years.

Of course if SWA were to acquire HAL next year...
 
I have no idea what Southwest will do but the 787 is nice to fly. Quietest airplane I have flown burns about 10000# at .86 and gets up to 410 in a hurry. We'll have to see how the stretch versions are as they come on line but the 800 is really nice.
 
737 MAX flight deck may be close to the 787s?

I would be bet 737-900ERS= Buy Hawaii or Alaska


Nope, the MAX overhead panel is identical to the NG. Still has the goofy "recall" light instead of an EICAS. Bigger screens but same presentation as the NG. Disappointing airplane from a cockpit perspective. There was so much they could have done to bring the airplane back to the future.

Guess I'll be happy if they give the FA's their own thermostat.
 
Nope, the MAX overhead panel is identical to the NG. Still has the goofy "recall" light instead of an EICAS. Bigger screens but same presentation as the NG. Disappointing airplane from a cockpit perspective. There was so much they could have done to bring the airplane back to the future.

Guess I'll be happy if they give the FA's their own thermostat.

Does the 737 still have packs that can't cool the airplane on the ground with APU air? The Sweatliner! And 787? Sparky the Scab-Wagon? HAHAHA.
 
Really?

You want us to add drag every time the fms says so eh?
Swa 73 expert

Please teach us more. What other messages do we need to pay special attention to?
As a matter of fact, I am typed in the 737 and have flown the aircraft.

To stay in VNAV Path, you have to stay within rate of decent parameters and speed parameters. If you are not going to do so, you have to change something. The FMS alerts you to do this. If you don't want to add drag, another option is to change speed - unless of course you are speed constrained by the aircraft configuration, the arrival, the FARs or ATC.

The other common mistake I've seen SWA pilots do when trying to change speed to stay in VNAV Path is to do so by using speed intervention and then wonder why it goes to VNAV Speed mode. Unless you are in the approach phase within the FMS logic, you need to change the speed within the FMS and not set a manually selected speed. Any other time speed intervention automatically takes it out of VNAV Path.

It also always amazes me when I sit in a SWA cockpit, hear them brief a VNAV approach and then watch them start using vertical speed modes continuously.

From what I've seen from many, many times in a SWA jumpseat since you started using VNAV a few years ago, whoever it is at SWA that sets your procedures and training does not understand VNAV.

Sorry if my opinion offends you but it is based on frequent personal observation. We went through the same misunderstanding problems at Hawaiian when we started using VNAV and it took us a couple of years to figure it out. But we never artificially limited ourselves like you guys do with speed brakes.
 
Really?

You want us to add drag every time the fms says so eh?
Swa 73 expert

Please teach us more. What other messages do we need to pay special attention to?

Wow. All I gotta say is WOW. The machine is giving you a hint.... And you probably programmed it wrong anyway. The FMS and VNAV are your friends... It appears obvious you guys might have some problems with INTL flying, especially with that attitude. Some cities in Europe have noise abatement procedures that pretty much necessitate turning the autopilot on ASAP due to noise monitoring systems and heavy fines. But, I bet you guys could hand fly it blindfolded.....




Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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You plan on rolling over on code share scoreboard?

Bc I'd like to talk to you in real life as I haven't met anyone who wasn't proactively warning me against code share-
 
GL, you're an idiot and from one troll to another- you're a troll.

Jim,
Do you think you could jump seat on us a lot more so this pilot group can get it?

Also, how do you make the "STEEP DESCENT AFTER XXXXX" message go away?

That one confuses me almost every flight
 
GL, you're an idiot and from one troll to another- you're a troll.

Jim,
Do you think you could jump seat on us a lot more so this pilot group can get it?

Also, how do you make the "STEEP DESCENT AFTER XXXXX" message go away?

That one confuses me almost every flight

An idiot? At least I can use VNAV in Europe. You can do whatever you want in West Texas, but when your FMS says "drag required", you may want to take it's advice or reprogram it. Good luck! How are the auto throttles working out for you guys too? Happy 4th!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
If you're talking SWA, I've jump seated in the cockpit enough to know the inability to maintain VNAV path is self induced. When the FMS says "drag required" you have to increase drag. The SWA rule against speedbreaks with any flaps makes that hard to do unless you want to start throwing your landing gear out.

Not exactly. (And I read your later post on the subject as well)

Sorry, Jim, but the inability to maintain VNAV path almost always has nothing to do with drag. It's more to do with the VNAV software we use, and not keeping up with it, or failing to program it properly (incl. descent forecast). However, it happens fairly often even with proper programming. And 98% of the time, inability to maintain VNAV path occurs during 'idle descent' from altitude, and not while in 'geometric descent' in the terminal area, so flaps are not a player here. In 'idle descent,' it will revert to VNAV speed, and you will generally get high on path when it attempts to capture the desired speed first.

If, however, you capture VNAV path in 'geometric descent,' the speed range opens, and vertical path is maintained automatically without regard to airspeed (short of overspeeding the aircraft). The "drag required" message may appear if you're above desired speed, but you will stay on the path; you'll just be fast.

Some observations on your stated 737 theory/techniques, Jim:

-- "Drag required" messages leading to losing VNAV path occur during 'idle descent' from altitude, so using flaps is inappropriate in this regime in the first place. Speedbrakes may be used, or better yet, simply increase the descent speed in FMS or with 'Speed intervention' to regain the path without leaving VNAV or shaking the plane.

-- "Drag required" messages during 'geometric descent' with a captured speed range indicate excessive speed, not an impending departure from the vertical path. Speed brakes may be used if you have to slow down (assigned speed, etc.). However, if somewhat higher speed is not a problem, don't worry about it; you've already paid for that energy, you might as well use it rather than bleeding it off with speedbrakes.

-- using flaps and speedbrakes together puts more stress on the airframe, and causes a pretty good buffeting for your passengers. If you understand the relationship between speed and vertical path during the two types of VNAV descents, than you should be able to avoid using speedbrakes the overwhelming majority of the time, and give your passengers a smoother ride.

-- blindly following "instructions" from your FMS scratch pad (i.e. pulling the speedbrake handle just because the "drag required" message appears) is probably not a good idea in the first place. Understanding the system and how it works goes a long way to making your life easier, and your flight smoother.

At any rate, Jim, I'll grant you that a fair number of our guys don't necessarily use the best techniques with VNAV. I suspect that this stems from being taught from day one to fly the plane one way, and then when SWA finally got around to embracing VNAV, the training these older guys got consisted mainly of assigned self-study. When they're out there, they often revert to the way they "used to do it." But having said that, your response of merely throwing out drag in response to a FMS message isn't always the best idea either.

Bubba
 
An idiot? At least I can use VNAV in Europe. You can do whatever you want in West Texas, but when your FMS says "drag required", you may want to take it's advice or reprogram it. Good luck! How are the auto throttles working out for you guys too? Happy 4th!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Seriously?

Do all you guys automatically yank on the idiot stick as soon as a "drag required" message pops up?

Bubba
 
Seriously?

Do all you guys automatically yank on the idiot stick as soon as a "drag required" message pops up?

Bubba

Not always, you can always use other means, like FLCH or increase your speed and descent rate in the CRZ or DES page and still hit a point on speed and altitude, but what I'm saying is that the VNAV is giving you a major hint, and to disregard it is ridiculous. Throwing out a little drag via the spoilers is probably a bit easier, and you don't have to punch in a bunch of numbers.

So, do all of you guys taxi at V1?



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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