No growth at SW until 2016 now

[PCL_128]

You like ALPA? Good for you. However, it's not the only good union; it's not for everyone. The largest airline in the world (American) doesn't want you; UPS doesn't want you; we don't want you. So what. We're happier with our own in-house union. Why do you have such a hard time getting that through your head?

Because it's worse for the industry and the profession (and it's actually worse for you, even if you won't admit it).

 

[PCL_128]

Face the facts. SWAPA built a better mousetrap.

I disagree. If something will never be implemented, it isn't "better." Some techno-dweeb may think so, but to the pilot, the only thing that matters is getting through security as quickly and painlessly as possible. ALPA has experience on Capitol Hill. That's how ALPA gets things done. Meanwhile, all SWAPA can do is get pictures of Richardson taken with John Boehner, who walks away shaking his head asking an aid "who the hell was that guy again?"

 

[Jim]

Precisely Bubba. To PCL, if it ain't ALPA it's crap. Which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Funny, that's just like you SWA guys.

If it ain't SWA or SWAPA, it's crap. Which couldn't be farther from the truth....

 

[redflyer65]

Jim,

Are you that obtuse? You've seen PCL's slant right? I've never said SWAPA was the be all end, end all. I like it and I think it's much better than ALPA. But of course that's just my opinion.

But then again, you like the General...so obviously you other mental issues.

 

[waveflyer]

Jim, have you worked for a Swapa carrier?



Well, I have as well as an alpa legacy and an alpa regional.

I appreciate everything alpa has done for me and mine, but have never felt more comfortable with a union. I'm not an alpa basher by any stretch, but definitely prefer Swapa. Funny how IPA and APA don't get the same treatment from the FI crowd
I'm sure you have an answer, so why is that PCL?

It's like you guys are pissed that we have a better than average working relationship with management.

(And Swapa guys, who only know Swapa- we still do. )

 

[PCL_128]

Funny how IPA and APA don't get the same treatment from the FI crowd
I'm sure you have an answer, so why is that PCL?

I don't see the same arrogance from the IPA and APA crowd. When you act like arrogant dooshes, you can expect some pushback. But I would say that SWAPA does a far better job than the APA, which has made some monumental blunders over the years that have had negative repercussions legally for the entire RLA labor community. IPA, with the exception of their recent Part 117 litigation, is actually pretty competent, although they certainly don't have the resources that ALPA does.

 

[Jim]

Jim,

Are you that obtuse? You've seen PCL's slant right? I've never said SWAPA was the be all end, end all. I like it and I think it's much better than ALPA. But of course that's just my opinion.

But then again, you like the General...so obviously you other mental issues.

I never said I agree with everything PCL says. I've never said ALPA is better then SWAPA. But you guys are beyond arrogant and show it daily.

As far as the General goes, I think he brings both good and bad to this site - more good then bad. He has an above average knowledge of the industry but could use some polish to his presentation. But his haters go beyond childish and he has as much right to be here as anyone. All they and anyone who doesn't like the General have to do is either put him on ignore or not read his posts.

 

[Dan Roman]

Funny, that's just like you SWA guys.

If it ain't SWA or SWAPA, it's crap. Which couldn't be farther from the truth....

This really is the essence of it guys. I really am not some kind of SWAPA/SWA hater, really I'm not, but there have been lots of SWA pilots on here bashing ALPA. Lots, so you are clearly going to get a response. Especially if you are going to try and put out there that SWAPA is somehow "better" than ALPA, the union that has essentially made all our careers what they are. I'm sure SWAPA has done great things for you guys, you have been lucky having a very enlightened management team the has realized happy productive employees yield great dividends, that makes it much easier to accomplish your goals ( not to mention "warrior spirit" employees willing to work harder for less! ) but ALPA has done much more for the profession then SWAPA has. ALPA has much greater resources than SWAPA has, ALPA has dealt with much greater adversity than SWAPA has ALPA has a MUCH greater history than SWAPA and ALPA is the big dog and SWAPA is not. Period.

 

[waveflyer]

Really PCL ?
Ok who's arrogance are you talking about? Actual Swapa officers or who you see on FI? Actual APA leaders, or FI?
(FI is not the online hangout of choice for most AA pilots)

I know I'm arrogant as all hell.

Sorry.



I don't represent Swapa especially not on FI

 

[Dan Roman]

Face the facts. SWAPA built a better mousetrap.

YGTBSM......you really believe that don't you. We show our ID and drivers license and go to the gate. That's the way it should be. It's quite possible it took longer than it had to because SWAPA put out a competing option. It wasn't as good so it didn't get selected. It would have been nice if SWAPA would have just supported ALPA's efforts.

 

[waveflyer]

Dan, you're such a hater!


Haha, that's good that you keep trying to say that

 

[Dan Roman]

actually...I HATE HATERS!

 

[PCL_128]

Really PCL ?
Ok who's arrogance are you talking about? Actual Swapa officers or who you see on FI?

wave, I don't think I've ever met another human being who's as much of an arrogant doosh as Steve Chase. Even you don't compare.

 

[Dan Roman]

wave, I don't think I've ever met another human being who's as much of an arrogant doosh as Steve Chase. Even you don't compare.

I don't know PCL who was the AA guy who compared TWA pilots to Walmart and AA pilots to Tiffany's or some other high end store. Talk about stunningly arrogant and just flat wrong ( I seriously doubt you could find many pilots that think the AA pilots were any better than the TWA pilots). That said, is there a streak of arrogance amongst the independent unions? And don't get me started about USAPA!

 

[waveflyer]

wave, I don't think I've ever met another human being who's as much of an arrogant doosh as Steve Chase. Even you don't compare.

I think I get it. Arrogance means not willing to give you relative seniority or date of hire

Yeah, if you want to get personal with our individual SLI, we're all pretty "arrogant" by that definition

 

[HowardBorden]

YGTBSM......you really believe that don't you. We show our ID and drivers license and go to the gate. That's the way it should be. It's quite possible it took longer than it had to because SWAPA put out a competing option. It wasn't as good so it didn't get selected. It would have been nice if SWAPA would have just supported ALPA's efforts.

Dan, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do some research please. SWAPA was simply the first union to partner with TSA to incorporate biometric data into pilot screening. The reason for that biometric component was it was in accordance with the 9/11 commission guidance on the matter. The TSA and the the House Committee on Homeland Security both mandated biometrics as a piece of the pilot approval process. SWAPA was not in any way pulling in a different direction than ALPA, they were both incorporating biometrics because that was a mandate of the pilot screening process. SWAPA simply had a working product before ALPA. Please look at this article from 2008 touting SWAPA as the pioneer in this technology.

A pilot from Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) will be the first aircrew member to be screened by the US Transportation Security Administration (TSA) using an advanced biometric screening system.

The demonstration project, which has TSA approval, is called SecureScreen. It uses biometrics for the positive identification of aircrew members to increase the security and efficiency of screening people attemtping to gain access to the cockpit of aircraft.

More than 200 Southwest Airlines pilots based at the Baltimore/Washington International Airport will be taking part in the trial of SecureScreen, which is scheduled to last for 20 days.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/TSA+t...ect+on+Southwest+Airlines+pilots.-a0185258494

ALPA soon came around to a similar process known as CrewPASS debuted in June of 2009. Of course ALPA claims to be the pioneer in this technology even though SWAPA had been operating a program a year earlier. Please watch the 2009 video put out by ALPA touting themselves as the pioneer of this technology that SWAPA had already successfully demonstrated in 2008.

http://alpatv.alpa.org/DesktopModules/UltraVideoGallery/UltraVideoGallery.swf?vId=188&portalId=14

So yes, I really do believe all of that. And, I have provided factual proof to back up my assertions. You claim: "We show our ID and drivers license and go to the gate." But, we could have just as easily shown our ID and never reached into our wallets for a drivers license but simply laid our finger on the pad to confirm our identity in a much more secure system. The one and only reason the biometric solution did not get implemented was the bitching and moaning from the A4A that it would cost too much even though the costs were basically identical as I have shown in previous articles.

 

[PCL_128]

I think I get it. Arrogance means not willing to give you relative seniority or date of hire

No, that's entirely expected. I wouldn't respect a union rep who didn't fight tooth and nail for his members. I'm talking about things he said that had absolutely no relation to the SLI. He's just an arrogant POS overall.

 

[vixin]

arrogant doosh as Steve Chase

He was a panzy a55 president that was pathetic. Now he could be an arrogant a55 to his fellow pilots. I saw that first hand in the jetway as he berated another CA for something fairly small. Steve Chase was nothing you think he was. A leader of our union he sure wasn't!

 

[Dan Roman]

Howie, that still doesn't change my premise....ALPA was working for all pilots, we really don't know what the politics were behind the scene. I'm guessing it had less to do with either union and more to do with Government bureaucracy , but I simply made the point that maybe it could have gone quicker had SWAPA and ALPA worked together for all pilots. If SWAPA was trying to get a system going so all pilots could use it, good for them. I have to wonder if they were trying to get a system going that would have been specific for just SWA pilots though. There does seem to be a bit of Warrior Spirit all about us that comes from SWA.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie, that still doesn't change my premise....ALPA was working for all pilots, we really don't know what the politics were behind the scene. I'm guessing it had less to do with either union and more to do with Government bureaucracy , but I simply made the point that maybe it could have gone quicker had SWAPA and ALPA worked together for all pilots. If SWAPA was trying to get a system going so all pilots could use it, good for them. I have to wonder if they were trying to get a system going that would have been specific for just SWA pilots though. There does seem to be a bit of Warrior Spirit all about us that comes from SWA.

You can't honestly believe that the TSA partnered with SWAPA to test a system that would have only been used to screen SWAPA pilots. SWAPA pilots were less than 1/10 of the 65,000 pilots working at US airlines.

The government bureaucracy was behind the use of biometrics, they had to be! It was directly stated as a portion of H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053). The TSA was behind it, testing multiple systems. The pilot unions were behind it. U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Committee on Homeland Security was behind it. The only group out of all the concerned parties not behind biometrics was the A4A. The only concern of the A4A is profit, not safety. The A4A lobbied hard to circumvent the the use of biometrics and nullify the requirement of H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053) because they knew they were the group footing the bill and they worried that the safest option was not the cheapest option.

You continually try and paint yourself as a disinterested, casual observer with no adverse bias against all things SWA and it's a crock. You simply can't objectively look at overwhelming factual evidence and come to the conclusion that SWAPA and SWA actually were part of a smarter solution to a complex problem. I don't have a problem with your outright bias, you are only one of many, it is the preposterous assertion that the bias doesn't exist that is irritating.