DOJ stipulates Love Field gates auctioned only to LCC's

[SWA Bubba]

Was Southwest prohibited from starting an operation at DFW, or are they just stubborn?

Nope, not prohibited initially. Just wanted to use Love, as we were a small, point-to-point intrastate Texas carrier when we started, and using DFW wouldn't have worked for us. Now, we would have to give up a gate at Love field for each and any gate at DFW we used, due to the 2006 compromise agreement between us, American Airlines, and the cities.

Regardless, we still don't want to use DFW; it would hurt our operation. DFW is a huge "fortress" hub, for American's hub-and-spoke operation. During an American wave of departures, you can expect to be on the ground a 45 minutes or more between push and takeoff. With our continual-use operation at Love field (no "banks" of departures), you can push from a gate there, and generally be airborne within minutes. It's worlds more efficient for our type of operation.

Bubba

 

[HowardBorden]

Was Southwest prohibited from starting an operation at DFW, or are they just stubborn?

A year later, a compromise was reached. It allowed Love flights to go anywhere in the U.S. after October 2014, but it also greatly reduced the risk to D/FW and American.....The deal essentially locked Southwest into Love. (It must give up gates to have service at D/FW, a condition that forced Southwest to drop AirTran?s D/FW routes after acquiring that competitor.)

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/...fw-is-flying-high-wright-amendment-or-not.ece

This most likely will be the rationale (as already stated by Kelly) SWA will use to lobby that they should be allowed to bid on the 2 gates being auctioned at Love.

 

[slaquer5]

Was Southwest prohibited from starting an operation at DFW, or are they just stubborn?

I am hoping your kidding.

 

[General Lee]

So you are taking the bet?

A month off if you're wrong?

What's funny is this is the equivalent of a $5 bet for any other normal person

I've done it and I'm the second biggest troll on here-
Yet for you it's a heroine you can't live a week without...

You'd start to get respect if you took and honored a bet like this

Man alive, you really like to bet. Nah, I said we'll see, that is not certainty. And I say I start debate, not troll. Also, you seem to really take this seriously. I actually enjoy this board, and the debate. You sound like you are one beat away from a total heart attack. Don't die Wave! Even I don't want that.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Username: Deltal1011man Real Name: Yo momma E-mail: Withheld Gender: Male Age: 21-25 Country:

United States of America Location: Atlanta Georgia Occupation: being with your mom. HA! Interests: your mom. HA! Homepage: No info Other info: No info Joined Airliners.net: 8 years 4 months 22 days ago (September 19, 2005) Last post: 1 day 23 hours ago (February 10, 2014) Signature: yep. Respect Rating: 10 Total Nr of posts: 9000

 

[Bringupthebird]

Regardless, we still don't want to use DFW; it would hurt our operation. DFW is a huge "fortress" hub, for American's hub-and-spoke operation. During an American wave of departures, you can expect to be on the ground a 45 minutes or more between push and takeoff. With our continual-use operation at Love field (no "banks" of departures), you can push from a gate there, and generally be airborne within minutes. It's worlds more efficient for our type of operation.

Bubba

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

 

[ROSWELL41]

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

Somehow Spirit figured out how to gain a foothold at DFW. I have no doubt WN could too if they wanted.

 

[Flyby1206]

Who's an LCC anymore? Checked tickets for my parents a while ago. LCC's were just as, if not more expensive.

That's the real irony. The true LCCs like Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier aren't interested in these gates/slots because they are too expensive.

 

[ROSWELL41]

That's the real irony. The true LCCs like Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier aren't interested in these gates/slots because they are too expensive.

Those three look for airports to pay them to start service. Paying for gates and slots would be the purview of the 'premium' LCCs VX, B6 and WN.

 

[Scoot 11]

Sometimes you write good stuff!

So you are taking the bet?

You realize you're dealing with a child there, right?

A month off if you're wrong?

Ha! Never happen!

What's funny is this is the equivalent of a $5 bet for any other normal person

Again, $5 is a lot to the child Lee. It's probably 2 or 3 tricks at an ATL airport restroom!

I've done it and I'm the second biggest troll on here-
Yet for you it's a heroine you can't live a week without...

You got that right!:laugh:

You'd start to get respect if you took and honored a bet like this

Respect is something earned! With 19000+ posts, and nothing to offer but "mom insults," it'll never happen! Remember, you're dealing with some booger picking d0uche bag sitting in his parents basement, who gets all his info from blowing some male f/a based in ATL!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

That's funny.

The entire 35+ year existence of the Wright Amendment was to protect other airlines (most notably American Airlines) from competition from Southwest. Southwest has never shied away from direct competition--at Love Field or anywhere else. Until this "compromise agreement," other airlines have always been free to compete with us at Love. Always. Many have tried, some multiple times. They always had free rein to do the same things that Southwest did at Love Field (of course, we were all hobbled by American Airlines political stooge, Rep Jim Wright). They came, tried to compete with us on exactly equal terms, and for the most part, left of their own volition. Until the limiting compromise, there were plenty of open, unused gates; the terminal had 32 gates, with Southwest using 16, American owning two and subleasing them, and I believe Continental with another two. That left 12 more open and available gates, that any other airline was free to use, but none wanted to.

The compromise agreement stipulated a maximum of 20 gates (at American and DFW's insistence, not Southwest's), of which 16 were the ones that we were using. Southwest wanted to keep all the available gates, and then you guys could come and go as you please, just as you did before. So if you want to bitch at somebody for keeping you from competing at Love, then maybe you should bitch at American Airlines or DFW airport, or the city of Ft Worth. They're the one's who insisted on these limitations in the agreement, over Southwest's objections. Do you really think that Southwest is afraid of competition like Flopgut is?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

As far as your other point goes, those other airports that are hubs aren't as anywhere near as bad as DFW (2700 daily AA and AE departures alone). LAX isn't really a hub; a zillion airlines fly there from all over, and traffic moves quickly and consistently. BOS, DCA, MSP and CLT are much smaller as far as hubs with enormous banks of departures, and don't seem to offer the same issues. We don't fly to MIA, and DTW is much better than it used to be. O&E traffic at both DTW and CLT is relatively small, so we don't have many flights there; and we try to schedule our few flights there between the banks. That wouldn't be possible at DFW, due to the sheer size of American's operation, and our O&E traffic in Dallas is substantially higher than the other cities that airlines picked as their hubs. Why do you think other airlines picked cities like Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland, etc. as places to put their big hubs?

I'll give you ATL. That airport can be a pain in the ass, and we take delays sometimes waiting. I suspect the only reason we fly there (aside from AirTran's operation) is that there was too much money to be made there, and there's not another suitable airport to use. Not the case in Dallas or Chicago, etc. But the big point is, why do you care what airport we fly in and out of? You need enormous airports (regardless of the size of the city) to support your fortress hub concept; we don't. Why don't you fly to the airports that you want, and stop bitching about Southwest's choice of airports? You work your business model, and we'll work ours. Are you really going to resort to making the "Flopgut argument"?

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

You realize you're dealing with a child there, right?
Ha! Never happen!

Again, $5 is a lot to the child Lee. It's probably 2 or 3 tricks at an ATL airport restroom!

You got that right!:laugh:

Respect is something earned! With 19000+ posts, and nothing to offer but "mom insults," it'll never happen! Remember, you're dealing with some booger picking d0uche bag sitting in his parents basement, who gets all his info from blowing some male f/a based in ATL!

And this guy claims to be an INTL pilot at DL, and can't remember basic procedures at two of the most widely used European airports DL goes to. Scoot is a total loser.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport. That is what started the Wright Amendment. The WA was always about keeping SWA protected. It's why it was continuously adjusted thru the years (to match what SWA was ready to do) For you SWA guys that doubt that happened, take a good look at what's going on today. The DOJ [the government] is *prohibiting* non LCC airlines from bidding on DAL gates. Think about that for a moment. Who's really being kept out of the bidding here? UAL AMR & DAL. Or, basically, the only airlines that could really mount serious competition there.

This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

 

[waveflyer]

Bubba
You're pinpointing the nature of the modern day airline pilot
Staunch conservative free market socialists

 

[waveflyer]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport.
This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

Complete with whatever revisionist history they need to justify their views^^^

Of this flop I agree- airlines are oligopolistic in nature and therefore always intersect with politics.

It's naive of you to think legacies haven't helped united along and so now you're what? Complaining that southwest is winning political battles for once?

C'mon man

 

[waveflyer]

Scoot
He may or may not be a delta pilot- but GL's been posting too long to be anything more than an adult who's as immature as his language suggests-
Unless it's a club of 10 year olds who pass the baton to the next generation year over year...

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Lets resurrect Hooters Air and have them bid for the DAL gates and then the General can go fly for them and he will be able to land at DAL (this must be his ultimate dream)

 

[Flopgut]

Complete with whatever revisionist history they need to justify their views^^^



Of this flop I agree- airlines are oligopolistic in nature and therefore always intersect with politics.



It's naive of you to think legacies haven't helped united along and so now you're what? Complaining that southwest is winning political battles for once?



C'mon man

What does any of that mean?! You shutting down again like you do when you've got no answers? Earlier you wanted to discuss capitalism. Well, let's discuss how it relates to the DOJ excluding legacy bids on dal gates. This is post WA, there should be no DOJ input on this airport. Does this fit in your version of capitalism?

 

[waveflyer]

What does any of that mean?! You shutting down again like you do when you've got no answers? Earlier you wanted to discuss capitalism. Well, let's discuss how it relates to the DOJ excluding legacy bids on dal gates. This is post WA, there should be no DOJ input on this airport. Does this fit in your version of capitalism?

Bubba already explained that one so either keep up or don't
But that doesn't make it worth my time to lay it out for you... Again