swatogether

[BRA]

I'm amazed this thread is going this way with that AAY data just sitting within that website link ripe for the beating…..

 

[scoreboardII]

How so?

 

[Ty Webb]

...and that's the one pay scale that AirTran had that was higher than SWA.

Whatever, buddy.

It's only about the money when there isn't much else.

I spent the last ten years in the left seat of a -700, enjoying the kind of trips I like- commutable, easy trips to long layovers in nice places. . . . and you spent the last ten years how, exactly?

:laugh:

 

[j41driver]

The company hired Randy Babbitt. I think swapa should hire Steve Kolski. The other trannies will know what I'm talking about.

That would be pretty funny.

 

[Toecutter]

Whatever, buddy.

It's only about the money when there isn't much else.

I spent the last ten years in the left seat of a -700, enjoying the kind of trips I like- commutable, easy trips to long layovers in nice places. . . . and you spent the last ten years how, exactly?

:laugh:

Wow, I'm sorry that bothers you. That was a shot aimed at BF, KG, SK, and company. They were making more that their SWA counterparts while asking the AT pilots to take a pay cut. Maybe you forgot about all that while building your beach condos.

 

[Ty Webb]

Wow, I'm sorry that bothers you. That was a shot aimed at BF, KG, SK, and company. They were making more that their SWA counterparts while asking the AT pilots to take a pay cut.

Sorry, I misread that as a dig at AAI pilots.

Maybe you forgot about all that while building your beach condos.

Nah, I didn't forget; those times were what motivated me to develop a life that didn't depend financially on the airline industry. . . . Maybe I should send them a "thank you".

:laugh:

 

[FlyinGuy]

CLE might be going away, but it's not gone yet. In fact, if you were informed you would know it was primarily express flying. Which is a reduction of outsourced flying, and for a moment had me thinking you SWA guys would appreciate the reduction in outsourced flying. Is that at all the case? Or are you just acting like a-holes?

I was just following your lead. You know, CAL crushing SWA's huge operation at IAH!!

 

[dicko]

Wow, I'm sorry that bothers you. That was a shot aimed at BF, KG, SK, and company. They were making more that their SWA counterparts while asking the AT pilots to take a pay cut. Maybe you forgot about all that while building your beach condos.

Meh. I thought it was pretty funny. What I also find amusing is this - the only difference between BJ and the other Bob, is their pay.

 

[Roomwithaview]

The point is obviously lost on you.

What point are you trying to make fckstik?

Are you upset cuz I never whored myself out by working for some broke d#ck operator like Mesa/freedom/gojet?

How many SCABs were on the list before you finally punched out?

Thank gawd you never had to torture yourselves with pulling gear pins after you crossed the picket line to get to work for a nickel ninety eight an hour.

 

[Clyde Frog]

You guys were running around ripping everyone's nuts off, now you're crying foul when someone might rip yours off.

Exactly. Boo F'n Hoo...

Everyone besides them had to know it was coming sooner or later....problem is now I'm tied to this sinking ship.

 

[HowardBorden]

No, I get that Red. My point is: what if going thru bk proves to be what legacy pilots use as a springboard to retiring multimillionaires? Having shed the debt and with what looks like insane profits ahead, some version of that could happen.

And I agree 401ks have pensions beat, for now. What if 401ks were abandoned by one of our competitors to undercut both of us? You going to be cheering them on? You guys were running around ripping everyone's nuts off, now you're crying foul when someone might rip yours off.

I don't think anyone is crying foul, however what an absolute tragedy has occurred. The legacies have made it acceptable if not required to screw their creditors and rape their employees in order move ahead.

Their is no conciliation prize for competing admirably and not using bankruptcy in order to hit the reset button reneging on promises made to employees and creditors.

What a sad state a of affairs when playing by the rules nets nothing but a higher cost structure than those that have used bankruptcy to force wage and benefit reductions not to mention the hardships placed on creditors who through no fault of their own are forced to accept pennies on the dollar for dollars lent with a fair expectation of repayment.

The really sad part is you seem to be celebrating the fact that legacies have used bankruptcy as a "springboard" for competing on, at one time, used to be a level playing field. I am quite sure you will be ecstatic when and if Southwest drags their employees and creditors through the proverbial mud in order to compete with the others that went down that road before them. But here's a little nugget for you, even after BK resets SWA still maintains a CASM advantage over every legacy while maintaining close to industry leading compensation packages for every employee group. If SWA is forced into bankruptcy proceedings they will again be poised to kick legacy ass but will have been forced to screw their employees to do so.

 

[HowardBorden]

Exactly. Boo F'n Hoo...

Everyone besides them had to know it was coming sooner or later....problem is now I'm tied to this sinking ship.

Please feel free to abandon ship before it goes down.

 

[27 driver]

What point are you trying to make fckstik?

Are you upset cuz I never whored myself out by working for some broke d#ck operator like Mesa/freedom/gojet?

How many SCABs were on the list before you finally punched out?

Thank gawd you never had to torture yourselves with pulling gear pins after you crossed the picket line to get to work for a nickel ninety eight an hour.

Are you really that big of a dousche bag? Don't forget LUV'S beginnings.

 

[RLAblows]

What point are you trying to make fckstik?

Are you upset cuz I never whored myself out by working for some broke d#ck operator like Mesa/freedom/gojet?

How many SCABs were on the list before you finally punched out?

Thank gawd you never had to torture yourselves with pulling gear pins after you crossed the picket line to get to work for a nickel ninety eight an hour.

I'm not upset about anything. Just found it entertaining to see a SWA pilot tell other pilots to "evolve or die." Coming from a company that is only playing catch up to the rest of the industry, because of the motto, "that's the way we have always done it." Hell, the 737 never evolved because Boeing's biggest customer wouldn't allow them to "evolve."

If Henry Ford had the same mentality we'd all be driving a model T. They worked just fine. Got you from point A to B.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Evolve or die

If you are a WN pilot, please attend a MTTF and share this with GK, 8000 pilots and 32000 other employees are counting on you.

 

[waveflyer]

Yay, air tran pilots bashing swa

What a surprise

Yawn....

Zzz

 

[Flopgut]

The really sad part is you seem to be celebrating the fact that legacies have used bankruptcy as a "springboard" for competing on, at one time, used to be a level playing field. I am quite sure you will be ecstatic when and if Southwest drags their employees and creditors through the proverbial mud in order to compete with the others that went down that road before them. But here's a little nugget for you, even after BK resets SWA still maintains a CASM advantage over every legacy while maintaining close to industry leading compensation packages for every employee group. If SWA is forced into bankruptcy proceedings they will again be poised to kick legacy ass but will have been forced to screw their employees to do so.

I don't think you'll go to bk; I don't wish that on you. I've said often I wouldn't want the worst things to happen to SWA. However, just because it's SWA that *might* be facing some adversity doesn't mean the whole world has to hit the panic button. Put your big boy pants on Howie. You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you guys, you [swa] worked your first 20+ years doing that.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I don't think you'll go to bk; I don't wish that on you. I've said often I wouldn't want the worst things to happen to SWA. However, just because it's SWA that *might* be facing some adversity doesn't mean the whole world has to hit the panic button. Put your big boy pants on Howie. You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you guys, you [swa] worked your first 20+ years doing that.

You know, for someone who keeps insisting that he "doesn't wish" BK or other bad things on SWA, you sure seem to wish an awful lot of bad things on SWA.

Why would you think that "[us] guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401k," or any other concession to keep Southwest healthy? (That would be at pay cut of at least half, by the way, along with a substantial loss of benefits.) Why would you even suggest any of those things about a pilot group in negotiations with a company that is not only making consistent profits, but actual record profits? Why?--other than your blind hatred of Southwest causing you to wish bad things on us, that is.

Bubba

P.S. By the way, for all you guys who keep talking about Southwest pilots taking pay cuts of giving other concessions (well, really I mean you and the General, Flop), I would like to point out that the company's opener isn't even asking for any concessions. Their opener is "flattish" on other contract points with cost of living increases in salary. Other than your hatred and the General's stupidity, I don't see how you guys keep seeing pay cuts and concessions.

 

[redflyer65]

P.S. By the way, for all you guys who keep talking about Southwest pilots taking pay cuts of giving other concessions (well, really I mean you and the General, Flop), I would like to point out that the company's opener isn't even asking for any concessions. Their opener is "flattish" on other contract points with cost of living increases in salary. Other than your hatred and the General's stupidity, I don't see how you guys keep seeing pay cuts and concessions.

Because even though none of what they say is based in reality, it's what keeps their wood up at night Bubba. Kind of like the hot supermodel you know you'll never get, but you can still dream. Right?

 

[Flopgut]

Why would you think that "[us] guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401k," or any other concession to keep Southwest healthy? (That would be at pay cut of at least half, by the way, along with a substantial loss of benefits.) Why would you even suggest any of those things about a pilot group in negotiations with a company that is not only making consistent profits, but actual record profits? Why?--other than your blind hatred of Southwest causing you to wish bad things on us, that is.

Here's why Bubba: Give me your full attention on this, I don't want any confusion to linger. You listen up too Red. I do NOT think you'll actually go back to 50% of what a legacy pilot makes. Not this contract, or any future contract. But I do NOT think you should ever forget that is EXACTLY what you did to get SWA where it is!! You hear me!? For at least two decades (maybe three), legacy guys had to hold the line against your Sh!t pay and no pension. And they did a good job, until things bigger than anyone ever could have imagined changed our world. That's not "blind hatred", that is a fact. We were forced into bk. By corporate raiders, bad managers, Uncle Sam and an attack. YOU willingly went to work for an airline that wanted to dismantle our airlines and paid cents on the dollar wages.

You guys aren't even close to anything going wrong over there. But you're squealing like stuck pigs because things *might* slow down for you. You need to try and show some class, or professionalism or something. Idk the word really... Grow up!!

 

[waveflyer]

You really don't like capitalism do you flop?

 

[madjack]

Who held the line since 2001 when the legacies were gutting their labor contracts and pensions thru bankruptcy?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Here's why Bubba: Give me your full attention on this, I don't want any confusion to linger. You listen up too Red. I do NOT think you'll actually go back to 50% of what a legacy pilot makes. Not this contract, or any future contract. But I do NOT think you should ever forget that is EXACTLY what you did to get SWA where it is!! You hear me!? For at least two decades (maybe three), legacy guys had to hold the line against your Sh!t pay and no pension. And they did a good job, until things bigger than anyone ever could have imagined changed our world. That's not "blind hatred", that is a fact. We were forced into bk. By corporate raiders, bad managers, Uncle Sam and an attack. YOU willingly went to work for an airline that wanted to dismantle our airlines and paid cents on the dollar wages.

You guys aren't even close to anything going wrong over there. But you're squealing like stuck pigs because things *might* slow down for you. You need to try and show some class, or professionalism or something. Idk the word really... Grow up!!

?

I think I got it now. Thanks. I don't know why I thought you meant that Southwest pilots would take pay cuts and other concessions,.... other than because that's what you actually said:

You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner.

​

I realize now that I'm supposed to "get" what you later say that you meant with your post, not what you actually said with your post. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll try to do better.

Also, thanks for clearing up what qualifies as "class and professionalism" insofar as airlines go. It's apparently not a startup facing unprecedented (and sometimes illegal) attacks from other airlines;--it's the airlines who do the illegal attacking. It's apparently not a startup who has continually improved its employees wages and benefits to the industry's highest, all while continuing to be profitable--it's the airlines who go up and down like a yo-yo, with hiring and raises in the good times, and cuts and furloughs in the bad times. It's apparently not the airline who continually works its own successful business model, tweaking and expanding, enriching its employees along the way, and essentially minding its own business--it's the airlines whose idea of competition consists of trying to force other airlines to do what they want them to do instead.

I'm so happy you explained all that to me; I feel so much better now.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

You really don't like capitalism do you flop?

No problem with capitalism, but that's not what's going on here. Legacies are held to the old world standard that existed when airlines were regulated. That is: public necessity. Good examples are airports DFW and IAH. Large, sophisticated airports that function as a marketplace are a "public necessity". Keeping DAL open a matter of public necessity? No. Was it necessary to SWA? Desperately. Same with another FIS in Houston. Neither the City nor it's citizens need another one. But SWA does. One level of capitalism does not exist.

 

[Flopgut]

?

I think I got it now. Thanks. I don't know why I thought you meant that Southwest pilots would take pay cuts and other concessions,.... other than because that's what you actually said:

You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner.

​

Also, thanks for clearing up what qualifies as "class and professionalism" insofar as airlines go. It's apparently not a startup facing unprecedented (and sometimes illegal) attacks from other airlines;--it's the airlines who do the illegal attacking. It's apparently not a startup who has continually improved its employees wages and benefits to the industry's highest, all while continuing to be profitable--it's the airlines who go up and down like a yo-yo, with hiring and raises in the good times, and cuts and furloughs in the bad times. It's apparently not the airline who continually works its own successful business model, tweaking and expanding, enriching its employees along the way, and essentially minding its own business--it's the airlines whose idea of competition consists of trying to force other airlines to do what they want them to do instead.

I can agree with some of that being the case. But you're forgetting the 4 decades that most legacies existed before SWA did. The first halves of their business looked not unlike SWA's first 40.

 

[waveflyer]

We've had this conversation and yet you haven't budged your position
And neither have I

So I'll spare everyone the full GL repeat myself mantra and just say i disagree-
And this democrat thinks you sound socialist

Do you really think it's a capitalist idea that only those things and facilities deemed "necessary" by govt should exist?

Please tell Starbucks then

Not sure any one of them is necessary but damn they take up a lot of retail space

 

[waveflyer]

I can agree with some of that being the case. But you're forgetting the 4 decades that most legacies existed before SWA did. The first halves of their business looked not unlike SWA's first 40.

This is very much not true

I suggest a good aviation history course

 

[Flopgut]

Do you really think it's a capitalist idea that only those things and facilities deemed "necessary" by govt should exist?

No, but it's wrong to wring the dollars out of legacies for these facilities when at the same time SWA is allowed to build something to suit their own needs. Continental was forced to build almost double the number of IAH gates to provide opportunity for competition. Legacies are being required by the DOJ to forfeit gates in mergers, while at the same time DOJ seems intent that SWA will control 99% of DAL. This disparity is BS. Let legacies keep what they have and stop building airports bigger than what they need.

 

[Flopgut]

This is very much not true



I suggest a good aviation history course

Ok, so advancing airline flying from bonfire to bonfire navigation, to ushering the jet age in, while advancing wages by more than a factor of 10 is less an accomplishment than what SWA has done? Let's just agree to disagree.

I measure by more than just a little $

 

[slaquer5]

Here's why Bubba: Give me your full attention on this, I don't want any confusion to linger. You listen up too Red.





But you're squealing like stuck pigs because things *might* slow down for you. You need to try and show some class, or professionalism or something. Idk the word really... Grow up!!

Hi Pot, it's me kettle.