10/250

[msculley6905]

To Mscully, profit sharing? If we took the ridiculous concessions that "hogwarts" offered you could kiss your profit sharing goodbye. That's just a ploy to get you to do exactly what you are doing, making us the villain. (We were here way before the EMT, when they are done raping and pillaging the company you and I work at, they will be gone)

look above, I never said anything about taking concessions, in fact i said compensation should be improved for all employees at this time, but at a reasonable level...IMO now is not a good time to be asking for them anyways by the company. Slowly rebounding economy, consistent profits, shiny new jets, threat of a major exodus to the majors....Someone said it before, but this needs to be a place people come to stay, not just for the pilots, but for the best talent in aviation...the time for concessions was in 2009, not now...

Profit sharing has zero impact on how I view the pilot group. Zip, zilch, none...how on earth do you think that make you the villain?

I have my opinions of the EMT, some good, some bad, but where they have to start making improvements immediately is morale...it is the lowest across the board as I've ever seen in my 5 years at the moment and that HAS to change..coming to work actually used to be a fun career, but now feels like just a job...picking a fight with the pilot group is not the smartest thing to do right now, IMO. But then again, they are very good at making smart, calculated decisions, and caving to ludicrous demands of a 100% raise would not be smart.

 

[msculley6905]

Actually, yes. I feel 12 hours should be a max with OT over 10 hours. Anything more is not safe in my opinion.

And no, during section 6 negotiations I will not elaborate at all in public or private what you do to the schedule that is stupid. Every pilot at the company knows exactly what I'm talking about though.

...and every pilot knows how to change a brief they don't like or that they don't feel is safe based on the rules of a mutually agreed upon contract...


....which, ironically, leads to the "stupid" stuff that schedulers do...see the cycle here? While setting up tomorrow, covering an owner late is not an option.

 

[fischman]

...and every pilot knows how to change a brief they don't like or that they don't feel is safe based on the rules of a mutually agreed upon contract...


....which, ironically, leads to the "stupid" stuff that schedulers do...see the cycle here? While setting up tomorrow, covering an owner late is not an option.

I call fatigued as necessary.

Do you want some advice on how to do your job?

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to tack on 4 hours of TNTV at 2300-0300 in the middle of Montana, except to make your lines look pretty on a computer, or to prove a point to us. We all see it, we all know it, we all expect it. On duty at the hotel in case you need us? Fine. At the airport, you're just being mean (and stupid, and wasteful (many times the FBO charges an after hour fee up to $200/hour to keep us there)). Plain and simple.

You want the fatigues to go away? Do away with the 0500 show for a 1200 go. Even if you assign duty at the hotel, we don't go back to sleep. We aren't robots who can flip a switch on and off. Once the alarm goes off, I'm up for at least 10 hours. If you don't need me until 1100 for a 1200, then assign me an 1100 show. 0500 is stupid and wasteful. Plain and simple.

You want the fatigues to go away? Stop assigning 4 hours of TNTV after a 4 leg day to get us to 12 hours of duty (it's a limit. Not a goal). The only reason to do it is to make your lines look pretty on a computer, or to prove a point. We all see it, we all know it, we all expect it. Plain and simple.

I understand the need for a hot spare. If you need it, then assign it. If you want your line to be pretty, then you aren't running a smart schedule. It is stupid and wasteful. Plain and simple.

Let me know if you need more lessons on how to do your job better. I'd welcome feedback from you too on how to fly better and take better care of the owners.

With bated breath I wait,

Fischman

 

[CA1900]

...and every pilot knows how to change a brief they don't like or that they don't feel is safe based on the rules of a mutually agreed upon contract...


....which, ironically, leads to the "stupid" stuff that schedulers do...see the cycle here? While setting up tomorrow, covering an owner late is not an option.

When your boss tells me, to my face, that they won't consider circadian rhythms because then his software "doesn't work as well," that tells me quite a bit.

 

[fischman]

When your boss tells me, to my face, that they won't consider circadian rhythms because then his software "doesn't work as well," that tells me quite a bit.

See msculley? We all see it, we all know it, we all expect it.

 

[T-1GUY]

To add, my day doesn't stop at your "Got to get 12 hours to make the metrics look good", the taxi driver doesn't magically appear at the plane at 12:01, the ride to the hotel is not via "beam me there", the check in process in not always "Sir, we have been waiting for you, here is your key and your room is ready.." The FAA finally gave 121 crews an hour to deal with this reality, but not 135. My ten hour rest clock started at 12:01, but I am no where near to putting my head on a pillow and getting some much needed shut eye...

 

[msculley6905]

I call fatigued as necessary.

Do you want some advice on how to do your job?

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to tack on 4 hours of TNTV at 2300-0300 in the middle of Montana, except to make your lines look pretty on a computer, or to prove a point to us. We all see it, we all know it, we all expect it. On duty at the hotel in case you need us? Fine. At the airport, you're just being mean (and stupid, and wasteful (many times the FBO charges an after hour fee up to $200/hour to keep us there)). Plain and simple.

You want the fatigues to go away? Do away with the 0500 show for a 1200 go. Even if you assign duty at the hotel, we don't go back to sleep. We aren't robots who can flip a switch on and off. Once the alarm goes off, I'm up for at least 10 hours. If you don't need me until 1100 for a 1200, then assign me an 1100 show. 0500 is stupid and wasteful. Plain and simple.

You want the fatigues to go away? Stop assigning 4 hours of TNTV after a 4 leg day to get us to 12 hours of duty (it's a limit. Not a goal). The only reason to do it is to make your lines look pretty on a computer, or to prove a point. We all see it, we all know it, we all expect it. Plain and simple.

I understand the need for a hot spare. If you need it, then assign it. If you want your line to be pretty, then you aren't running a smart schedule. It is stupid and wasteful. Plain and simple.

Let me know if you need more lessons on how to do your job better. I'd welcome feedback from you too on how to fly better and take better care of the owners.

With bated breath I wait,

Fischman

Generally speaking, in the very rare case you ever get a brief to SHOW at 2300 ANYWHERE, it's for a reason. If not, then I agree with you it's a huge waste. But very early or very late trips need special attention since there are very few crews that can recover if needed. Needs of the business dictates it, crazy at it seems.

Everything you've mentioned is a contradiction to the needs of the business. We are not a static flight schedule. Flexibility is needed all over the place, at all times of the day, regardless of location. 1 break, 1 fatugue, 1 sick call usually means a minimum of 5 trips change. Long show gos are a necessity as the schedule morphs from the most efficient to the fastest/least impact to the owner as current day juggles the madness.

If everyone had a 1 hr show/go, do you have any idea how screwy things would get? Recovery time would be through the roof, and that is not an acceptable practice.

10 hour turns, while understandably fatiguing multiple days in a row, are a practice that is generally avoided with us, and used only in times of need, not just to be punitive or to put the screws to you.

I am not a pilot, so I cannot offer you any suggestions on how to fly. Likewise, you are not a scheduler, so while your suggestions are appreciated, they do not always fit with how the operation works. Believe it or not, we (well, I know I do at least) try to take in consideration all the things you mention, since after all, a happy pilot is a productive pilot, meaning better results for everyone. But our job is to produce a schedule with no delays and no downgrades, and as efficient as possible after meeting those two criteria....but unfortunately, we sometimes have to do all the things you mentioned above to produce that. it's the need of the business.

 

[msculley6905]

When your boss tells me, to my face, that they won't consider circadian rhythms because then his software "doesn't work as well," that tells me quite a bit.

not sure of which boss you speak of, but it doesn't really matter. A simple suggestion...call and ask, the earlier the better too, that's why you have the next day brief function...worst case is someone says no, best case is you get it changed to work better for you...but that likely puts someone else into your previous predicament. Can't make everyone happy unfortunately

 

[BentOver]

Msculley,

No offense, you are a scheduler. The qualifications between you and the pilots is not even close.... The pilots should get more and deserve more and are rightfully higher up the food chain.. It's the way it is...

Every aviation company I've worked at (6) has had someone complain to me about how the pilots make so much more than them.. From ground handlers to fuelers, to flight attendants.... I give them a blank stare because of how ridiculous they sound... Requirements of a ground handler...able to lift 45 lbs... Pretty much the same for the rest.. Want to get started on requirements to reach professional level of pilots?

 

[msculley6905]

To add, my day doesn't stop at your "Got to get 12 hours to make the metrics look good", the taxi driver doesn't magically appear at the plane at 12:01, the ride to the hotel is not via "beam me there", the check in process in not always "Sir, we have been waiting for you, here is your key and your room is ready.." The FAA finally gave 121 crews an hour to deal with this reality, but not 135. My ten hour rest clock started at 12:01, but I am no where near to putting my head on a pillow and getting some much needed shut eye...

call and get your rest adjusted...that's your right and ability to do so. ...then, as fisch stated, that crew with the 7 hour show/go gets your trip if an owner impact is created. the schedule is built to try and handle issues just like these