NJ Recalls

[LAZYB]

When you are in your late 50's or 60's and see JUS as a possible place to end your career at age 65, or a NJ career F/O into your 70's. NJ career F/O is a dream job. It is all in perspective.

There ya go.

 

[jetlag7]

OK...too bad they are keeping all the good news from the shareholders regarding the earnings.

Not sure what you mean by this, earnings information for shareholders begins on page 81 of the annual report......

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY INC. 2012 ANNUAL REPORT
Management’s Discussion
(Continued)
Manufacturing, Service and Retailing
(Continued)
Other service
Our other service businesses include NetJets, the world’s leading provider of fractional ownership programs for general
aviation aircraft and FlightSafety, a provider of high technology training to operators of aircraft. Among the other businesses
included in this group are: TTI, a leading electronic components distributor; Business Wire, a leading distributor of corporate
news, multimedia and regulatory filings; Dairy Queen, which licenses and services a system of over 6,200 stores that offer
prepared dairy treats and food; Buffalo News and the BH Media Group, which includes the Omaha World-Herald acquired at
the end of 2011, as well as 26 other daily newspapers and numerous other publications; and businesses that provide
management and other services to insurance companies.

Revenues of our other service businesses in 2012 were approximately $8.2 billion, an increase of $737 million (10%) over
2011. The increase in revenues in 2012 was primarily attributable to the inclusion of the BH Media Group and a comparative
revenue increase from TTI, principally due to its bolt-on business acquisitions in 2012. Pre-tax earnings of $966 million in 2012
declined $11 million (1%) from earnings in 2011. Earnings of NetJets and FlightSafety in 2012 were relatively unchanged from
2011. Earnings of other service businesses in 2012 included earnings of the BH Media Group, which were more than offset by
lower earnings from TTI due primarily to weaker customer demand and intensifying price competition over the past year.
Revenues of our other service businesses were approximately $7.4 billion in 2011, an increase of $586 million (9%) over
2010. The revenue increase was primarily attributable to stronger demand for electronic components (TTI) and pilot training
(FlightSafety) and from higher revenues at NetJets. TTI revenues increased 12% as customer demand increased rapidly during
the first half of 2011, and then moderated over the second half. FlightSafety’s revenues increased approximately 8% due
primarily to increases in training demand within the business aviation and regional airline markets, partially offset by lower
revenues from government customers. The comparative revenue increases of NetJets reflected revenues related to aircraft
operating cost increases that are passed through to customers (with little or no margin), and slight increases in rates. Revenue
hours flown in 2011 were essentially unchanged from 2010.
Pre-tax earnings were $977 million in 2011, which exceeded 2010 by $72 million (8%). The increase in earnings was
driven by higher earnings of FlightSafety, NetJets and TTI, partially offset by lower earnings from Buffalo News. FlightSafety’s
earnings increased approximately 16%, reflecting increased revenues and ongoing cost containment efforts. NetJets’ earnings
increased 10% primarily attributable to higher revenues and lower aircraft maintenance costs due to a 10% reduction in the size
of the fleet, partially offset by comparatively higher impairment charges related to the planned disposition of certain aircraft and
fees incurred to cancel certain aircraft purchase commitments. Over the past few years, NetJets has reduced the number of
aircraft in its fleet by approximately 20% and lowered its operating cost structure to better match customer demand.

That doggone Mr. Buffett is known for paying management too much...wish he would stop it.

Not sure that he is known for it, but the reality is they aren't exactly living on beans and rice....

Regardless, as long as revenue is up, I don't think the shareholders could care less about executive compensation - certainly not at a company so microscopic compared to the rest of the BRK empire.

Enough of this.... time to drink green beer and "riverdance!!!"

Happy Saint Patty's!!

 

[gret]

...and how much did NetJets make?

 

[gutshotdraw]

...and how much did NetJets make?

In round numbers, about $200 million for 2012 and paid down about $300 million in debt to under $1 Billion (make sure to put your pinkie to your lip...)

 

[OPECJet]

Originally Posted by OPECJet

Gotta do what the boss tells you to do. Fractional ownership is no big secret. If the boss tells you to start exploring options, you do it. Surely you haven't been at NJA long enough to be institutionalized...



I'm having to do the same thing right now. Our company doesn't have a flight dept, but is getting ready to start one. NJA has come up, and if I'm told to explore fractional ownership, I will do so, even if it means losing the job. In the past it was an easier pill to swallow since we were led to believe that more sales = faster recall. A few of us tried to convince the company that they should hire furloughed pilots to sell shares. No dice. Wouldn't have flown anyway since you'd have had to resign your seniority number.



With my state of slight intoxication coupled with the wife waking me up at 0230 for no good reason, I'm actually a little pissed at you're inference that I'm making this up. We no longer live in the candy coated NJA world.

Sorry Opec, didn't mean to offend. I thought you meant people were pitching their boss on NJA unsolicited, not at the boss' request. Different issue.



Fifteen years ago, my boss "explored" the fractional option without telling me he was doing so and by the time the maintenance auditor showed up to review the aircraft logbooks and paperwork (the proverbial "lightbulb moment") it was too late to even discuss it. So I've been down that road.



I stand by my belief that owners ARE more price sensitive these days, some more than others, and that the political and economic realities in the US are the reasons why.

It's all good. Very little offends me, and that post didn't come close. Especially with a little more distance between the Appleton and the keyboard.

 

[crashtest]

Welcome to Obamaville boys, you ain't seen nothing yet........make sure you take care of yourselves and buy plenty of gold, because cash is as good as all those corporate jets being parked out on the ramp.

 

[pilotyip]

So what are our executives at NJA paid? I see it referred to on this board from time to time, but nobody says how much they are paid. The more ardent union pilots seem to feel it is important.

Good question, lets ask this one How many NJ Exec's make more than the top Captain, how many employees at NJ make more than the top Captain?

I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home)

I am going to guess a similar situation exists at NJ

 

[gret]

In round numbers, about $200 million for 2012 and paid down about $300 million in debt to under $1 Billion (make sure to put your pinkie to your lip...)

Truly remarkable that they have generated earnings of $200 million per year three years running. Never seen this before for a company in the aviation industry.

They haven't reported a figure in the 10-K for two years...just a lot of narrative saying sales increased by X, costs decreased by Y, canceled aircraft orders incurred penalties, and they have too many aircraft and are adjusting the fleet size.

"Consistency" of this figure would indicate that mgmt is doing something truly spectacular and should be rewarded.

 

[jetlag7]

Good question, lets ask this one How many NJ Exec's make more than the top Captain, how many employees at NJ make more than the top Captain?

I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home)

I am going to guess a similar situation exists at NJ

You're not considering the sample size.

There are 12,000 pilots at Delta - no surprise their combined salaries are greater than the sum of a measley 17 executives.

Delta Captains in the 747-400 and 777 are on the highest payscales among the pilots. They can gross from $250 - $300K/year.

CEO Richard Anderson made $8.9 million last year. (not the top 17 executives - just one man!) It would take TWENTY-NINE 747/777 Captains to equate to just a single executive at Delta.

Yes, your guess that a similar situation exists at NJ is correct.

 

[gret]

What is the point?

What should the CEO of Delta make?

A 777 Captain makes 6 times that of a receptionist...should they give the office worker a pay raise?

A 747 Captain makes 5 times that of a an entry level FO... should they reduce the Captain's compensation?

Warren Buffett has a lot of money, most workers don't...what should be done about that?

 

[jetlag7]

What is the point?

What should the CEO of Delta make?

I was responding to pilotyip's remarks about an article in ATW.....

To answer your question, I really don't care what the CEO makes. I do however, care a great deal when I'm not paid what I'm worth and am told to take cuts by the same group who pay themselves enormous bonuses year after year....

 

[gret]

Got it...missed the connection.

 

[pilotyip]

You're not considering the sample size.

There are 12,000 pilots at Delta - no surprise their combined salaries are greater than the sum of a measley 17 executives.

Delta Captains in the 747-400 and 777 are on the highest payscales among the pilots. They can gross from $250 - $300K/year.

CEO Richard Anderson made $8.9 million last year. (not the top 17 executives - just one man!) It would take TWENTY-NINE 747/777 Captains to equate to just a single executive at Delta.

Yes, your guess that a similar situation exists at NJ is correct.

The article refered to individuals, not the sum of Capt pay. It stated there were 17 employees at DAL in 2001 that made more than the top Captain at around $300K. The total combined salaries of those 17 employees made up 1/6 of 1% of the totlal DAL payroll. Not even a drop in the bucket. What is the percentage of exec compensation to total payroll at NJ?

 

[jetlag7]

The article refered to individuals, not the sum of Capt pay. It stated there were 17 employees at DAL in 2001 that made more than the top Captain at around $300K. The total combined salaries of those 17 employees made up 1/6 of 1% of the totlal DAL payroll. Not even a drop in the bucket. What is the percentage of exec compensation to total payroll at NJ?

In a company with 80,000 people on the payroll, even CEO Anderson's $8,900,000.00 only amounts to $112 per employee.

Divided up among such a large group, of course it doesn't add up to much of a drop in the bucket.

What would be more instructive is if the article compared average pay of those 17 executives to average salary of the remaining 79,983 employees.

So to paraphrase gret, "what is the point?" Was the article trying to make a case in defense of DAL executive pay?

 

[G4dude]

In a company with 80,000 people on the payroll, even CEO Anderson's $8,900,000.00 only amounts to $112 per employee.

Divided up among such a large group, of course it doesn't add up to much of a drop in the bucket.

What would be more instructive is if the article compared average pay of those 17 executives to average salary of the remaining 79,983 employees.

So to paraphrase gret, "what is the point?" Was the article trying to make a case in defense of DAL executive pay?

I think the point is, and one with which I agree, is that management pay has no bearing on the fairness of pilot pay. And that the total of upper management compensation is inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.

 

[G4dude]

I was responding to pilotyip's remarks about an article in ATW.....

To answer your question, I really don't care what the CEO makes. I do however, care a great deal when I'm not paid what I'm worth and am told to take cuts by the same group who pay themselves enormous bonuses year after year....

What are we worth? Who decides? What if you believe you are worth 300000 and your employer thinks you are worth 120000? Who is right? What if you both agree you are worth 300000, but paying the pilots that much puts the employer out of business? Is that a good thing, and are you really worth that much in this scenario?

 

[pilotyip]

So to paraphrase gret, "what is the point?" Was the article trying to make a case in defense of DAL executive pay?

Not in defense of DAL CEO pay, the pay although it may be obscene is in the big picture not alot of money compared to the total payroll.

 

[imacdog]

What are we worth? Who decides? What if you believe you are worth 300000 and your employer thinks you are worth 120000? Who is right? What if you both agree you are worth 300000, but paying the pilots that much puts the employer out of business? Is that a good thing, and are you really worth that much in this scenario?

The company thinks we're worth minimum wage. Anything past that is what we bargain for. Sit back and maybe you'll learn a thing or two about why pilots get paid what we do.

 

[brokeflyer]

if managment makes a mistake, they STILL get a raise and everyone lives.

 

[OHGOON]

What are we worth? Who decides? What if you believe you are worth 300000 and your employer thinks you are worth 120000? Who is right? What if you both agree you are worth 300000, but paying the pilots that much puts the employer out of business? Is that a good thing, and are you really worth that much in this scenario?

Who decides? Management decides. It's up to them to decide what they are willing to pay and how that affects the Profit/Loss statement.

The point is not what we are worth G4 but what we are able to ask for. If you start devaluing your worth from the start then you will always be paid accordingly.

Bottom line, you are labor, you are not management. It's up to you to ask for a raise and it's up to them to decide if they are willing or able to give it to you. If you however never ask, you will never get one.

BTW, what concrete evidence do you have that NJA can't afford a pay increase?