NJ Recalls

[jetlag7]

...with the right changes to certain productivity issues, a new contract could actually result in HIGHER revenue and profit margin if managed correctly.......

This is the most challenging and labor-intense job I've ever worked in my career.... (even more so than my days as a freight dog)

I have no clue as to how it would be humanly possible to squeeze additional efficiency out of my hide, so I'm curious what specific productivity issues you feel are holding us back?

 

[jonjuan]

IMO, for a company like Netjets, 5th year SIC's should be in the range of atleast $110-120K...On the 7/7..More for the 18 day guys....

NJA typically profits more than major airlines, and that is what the major FO's typically bring in.. Now with new contracts being signed, FO's (and CPT's of course!) are beginning to see improvements in their income at the Legacies...

Delta made $1.6B in net profit last year (with 2013 forecast of $2.5 Billion) for example. Did NJA make anywhere near that? No idea-just comparing apples-to-apples.
Of course, much of that profit was made by charging for bags. There's un untapped revenue stream for you.

 

[G4dude]

I gave up chasing the white pellet across the pasture. Now I put very large holes in paper and cardboard and convert money into noise instead....

Like I said a while back, you have to not care when the brain trust threatens "CHAOS! MAYHEM! DISASTER!" The money is there for a pay RAISE and with the right changes to certain productivity issues, a new contract could actually result in HIGHER revenue and profit margin if managed correctly. Sadly, I think the inability to think outside the box on BOTH sides will make that unlikely.

What pay scale would you like to see?

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

What pay scale would you like to see?

For starters something that is commensurate with our counterparts at premiere Legacy or Freight carriers. Historically that has been a defining benchmark for our profession. For perspective the APA just negotiated with BK AMR a 14% direct contribution into their 401k. NJA is well positioned to be spectacularly profitable in the near future. We are the world's preeminent brand of travel in part because of all our efforts on the line. All I'm asking for is something that reasonably compensates me for my experience, time away from home and for a robust retirement portfolio once my 30+ years here expire. This company should always be in the forefront in providing a compensation package that serves to retain and recruit the profession's most well qualified personnel. The folks that occupy our cabins would expect nothing less.

 

[jrmyl]

For starters something that is commensurate with our counterparts at premiere Legacy or Freight carriers. Historically that has been a defining benchmark for our profession. For perspective the APA just negotiated with BK AMR a 14% direct contribution into their 401k. NJA is well positioned to be spectacularly profitable in the near future. We are the world's preeminent brand of travel in part because of all our efforts on the line. All I'm asking for is something that reasonably compensates me for my experience, time away from home and for a robust retirement portfolio once my 30+ years here expire. This company should always be in the forefront in providing a compensation package that serves to retain and recruit the profession's most well qualified personnel. The folks that occupy our cabins would expect nothing less.

I, for example, am making much more now that I am furloughed than as an fo at NJ. I made more my first year at AJX than I did on year 3 pay at NJA. Now on year 3 pay as an fo at AJX and am making over 120k/year. With the same benefits as I had at NJA. So I believe that NJA has a long way to go to improve in the compensation package. I feel that I am finally making what I should be making. Would I like more, of course, but I am satisfied for now as an f/o.

 

[gutshotdraw]

This is the most challenging and labor-intense job I've ever worked in my career.... (even more so than my days as a freight dog)

I have no clue as to how it would be humanly possible to squeeze additional efficiency out of my hide, so I'm curious what specific productivity issues you feel are holding us back?

This won't be popular......


1. Hourly overtime. What?

How much time, money, and effort is wasted calculating and chasing hourly overtime?

Pay us an across-the-board higher salary (with COLA) and dump all the hourly overtime stuff. Schedulers sometimes make decisions that negatively affect our owners (hence, profitability) because of edicts from on--high to avoid hourly overtime. Stupid.

1A. So how do we prevent abuse by scheduling? Give them an incentive to turn us off when they REALLY don't need us on and save us for when they DO. How? Simple. Rest rules.

NO rest period shorter than 10 hours (from HOTEL ARRIVAL). Then, no rest period shorter than the preceding duty period, rounded UP to the next hour. In other words, you work an 11:05 duty day, you get 12:00 off. You work 12:20, you get 13:00 off. Now they have an incentive to get you into rest so it doesn't jack with a trip for the next day.

2. Max days of overtime by bid period. Calculate the max overtime days by the YEAR.

Real Example: Last year, a crew was in Asia, gave up their jet to another crew, and then was asked to extend and airline to Singapore for a return trip to the States. "No problem" says the crew. Both of the pilots had worked a day or two of overtime earlier in the bid period. Now, customer says "Hey NetJets, I need to stay in Singapore a couple more days." Whoops! Change the crew out to the tune of about $20 grand because they would exceed the 5 day limit per bid period. Make the limit by the YEAR and that crew could have done the trip and saved some coin. Ripe for more Bubba abuse? Maybe. Worth it if you ask me.

3. Dump the 15 day schedule. You CANNOT make a financial case for a 3 or even 4 day tour amortizing the cost of airlining a pilot to or from a jet for that short a tour. Yes, we airline mid-tour but that is the COMPANY'S leak in the boat. The 15 day is a leak from OUR side of the boat.

Those are my top 3. Okay, 3 and a half. I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to "game" the system that could be curbed or eliminated but I'm not very familiar with how to manipulate the contract. The examples above are just the most obvious ones to me.

And Jetlag, no offense but if this is the hardest flying job you've ever worked, you've had a charmed career.

 

[gutshotdraw]

What pay scale would you like to see?

Did you know that one of our GIV Captains who has been bypassing his Delta recall will be going back this spring and will make MORE as a Delta F/O the day he returns? He's a great guy and I'm VERY happy for him but, do you think that makes ANY sense?

He'll be flying from familiar airport to familiar airport from 8,000 foot runway to 10,000 foot ILS runway. We have to be ready to do anything from Aspen to Aruba. Indianapolis to Istanbul.

How about an all-nighter from White Plains to Chambery, France. Ever shoot that approach? In steady rain, low ceilings, high winds, and moderate turbulence? It's a doozy. But Mr. Moneybags' KIDS got to the ski chalet safely and on-time. No, we don't get paid enough.

Pay Scale?

I'd like to see a 15 year scale for PIC's and SIC's but with a twist.

When an SIC upgrades to PIC, they join the PIC scale at Year 1, NOT their years of service. Year 1 PIC would necessarily have to be higher than Year 15 SIC. The PIC year scale would be for years as a PIC, not years of service. And once you reach 15 years in that seat, your salary goes up every year with COLA adjustments.

As others have pointed out, we are now more than 10% CHEAPER to the company than we were 6 years ago while Owner's contracts have continued to go UP because of the inflation escalator in their contracts. But nailing down a complete scale here would take more time than I'm willing to devote.

That said, I'd like to see the 15 year scale for PIC top out at around $200,000 (AND THEN COLA!) and the SIC scale top out at around $115,000 (AND THEN COLA!!). Year 1 PIC would then have to be about $125,000.

Did I mention there HAS TO BE COLA?

Probably pie in the sky but we shouldn't have to settle for much less.

 

[jetlag7]

...And Jetlag, no offense but if this is the hardest flying job you've ever worked, you've had a charmed career.

Ha! Spend a year in the X and you'll understand what I'm talking about....

No offense, but you and I don't exactly work the same job.

 

[BentOver]

I'm gonna side with Jetlag on this one.... Back when NJA was really busy, in the X I remember doing 5 legs a day with maybe 4 being revenue flights. Cleaning an a/c, stocking, catering, loading bags, and carrying out those cases of Fiji etc...... In the sense of the actual amount of work done, NJA is a labor intensive flying job where you are constantly doing something or preparing to constantly do something....That does not include how many times a NJA pilot checks his/her BB a day...

vs. a 121 operation where I turn left, load the flight plan and wait....


And in the case of the GIV PIC returning to Delta...IMO that pretty much sums up the current mindset of many on the NJA list.....(How alluring must the airlines be when you have a GIV PIC voluntarily leaving to return to the airlines)

 

[cldsfr79]

I would love to see at least a 10 to 15+% pay increase plus COLA at the top end. I wouldn't vote for anything less! Who wouldn't want to make big money at their job?

But I have to laugh sometimes.

If you are a 15 year PIC making 140k+ on the 7/7 and you can't make ends meet with that pay, you have to reevaluate where you are spending your money.

Most of America with a family of 4 makes a family income of just over 50k a year. Work with that!!!

Personally, I can take care of a $2500 mortgage (plus taxes/insurance), own two relatively nice cars, pay for college loans and still have plenty to "play with" (vacations and toys).

My heart doesn't bleed for these guys who have trouble paying a mortgage on two home (winter and summer), has a large speed boat, jet skis, Harley, Corvette, an X-wife, an expensive new wife, and they just turned 62 and somehow ended up with a new child that's 5 years old! Poor budgeting and life planning if you ask me.