9E Wins Race to Bottom

[Flyer1015]

Longevity does not come close to telling the whole story. Gojets has 10 days off, 1-2 weeks of vacation max, 1% 401K match, no min day, no cancellation pay, 70 hour reserve guarantee, I would guess their health care is not stellar, 50% deadhead pay, etc

9E has 11 days off min, up to 4 weeks of vacation, 50% match up to 10% (5 times Gojets), min day, cancellation pay, leg by leg guarantee, junior man refusal, 200% pay junior man, reasonable health care, short term and long term disability, 75 hour reserve guarantee (that's about $435 more per month than Gojets min), 75% deadhead pay, etc.

That's just off the top of my head.

So if you were Delta, even after this TA passes, and GoJets can still do it cheaper, wouldn't you just wind down 9E and transfer the flying to GoJet?

 

[suupah]

What does Tom Wycor Do - Absolutely Nothing!

Wow. You are completely out of touch with what the Union does and what Tom does. These people give up a lot personally to use every legal tool available to help the line guys. What everyone is pissed about really is the fact that the union leadership will not cross the legal line. But to say he, or they do nothing is to be woefully ignorant.

Seriously. So out of touch.

In any case. Delta whooped our asses. Thats the long and short of it. If it is voted down, they'll get a judge to impose. And the bending over of the regional segment of the industry will happen. Delta check mated the industry.

g'luck to everyone at pncl.

 

[mesaba13]

Why don't they give it all to Gojets? who knows! Why is SkyWest or ASA still a Delta partner when their costs are way above Gojets or Compass?

I am sure Delta wants diversification and also a company like Gojets or freedom to always be a threat to the rest of pack.

 

[Flyer1015]

Why don't they give it all to Gojets? who knows! Why is SkyWest or ASA still a Delta partner when their costs are way above Gojets or Compass?

I am sure Delta wants diversification and also a company like Gojets or freedom to always be a threat to the rest of pack.

Because ASA/SKY have smart management, and some leverage. I believe there is some rule that ASA must operate a large percentage of ATL regional flights, something to do with landing slots they own. 9E has always been led by a bunch of clueless clowns who don't know how to run a business.

 

[jetstream]

The true enemy here is Delta.

Just like any other business the regional airlines are out there competing against one another for a customers (in this case Delta) business. If one of the competitors goes out of business (for whatever reaason) the surviving ones compete to pick up that companies customers.

The problem here is that Delta is intervening (for the second time if I am correct) and keeping a company alive that otherwise can't hang with the competition. In exchange for the lifeline, said company agrees to provide its product for just about anything the customer demands (after all its either that or go under).

The other companies, who have been running their businesses well enough to surive in the marketplace and stand on their own, are in effect punished for their efforts.

I can only imagine the cries of foul from Delta if say American, for example, were to be on the verge of going out of business and the government rushed in with money to keep them afloat in exchange for them agreeing to sell tickets to the flying public at prices Delta coulde not match without losing money.

Not that they will, but Delta should butt out and let what should be a free market economy do its job.

 

[mesaba13]

Agree than they would not of sold us to 9E and created this mess.

 

[xjhawk]

The only reason they are still well below is because they have only been operating about 6 years. If this TA had all captains capped at 6 years and FOs at 3, we would be cheaper than them. Look at the year by year pay rates... Our MEC is feeding a pile of BS saying we are middle of the pack cost wise... That probably is true but that's because everyone very soon will be topped out on both pay scales, not because we will have a better contract than them.

Agree. If they told the truth, it would go something like this. "To make us cost competitive only the senior pilots would have to take a pay cut"

But as it sits, for some reason even the most junior are taking cuts far below the average and yet as we talk the union is saying (using their false bar graphs) that we are above middle of the road. If this was a fair TA to get us cost competitive they would have slashed the captain rates to the 12 year mark eliminating the factor of how senior our pilot group is-they could have even just given the entire pay scale of the FO's a 9% cut keeping the 7-8 rates instead of slashing it to topping out at 4 years.

The way I look at it is there is something going on behind closed doors-using those costing models saying our pilot group is too senior (15-20 year pilots) and then slashing the FO rates the way they did is unacceptable. I like to think of what old Ronnie used to say. Trust but verify. In this case-I would like to trust, but I cannot verify as they statistics my own union give me are lies.

I can be very specific on the examples of the lies

05' XJ contract-they are still saying the captains got a less of a raise than the FO's got-using only percentages as their proof. But when the math is done, the captains still generally got more money (hard spendable dollars) per hour raise than the FO's.

the Pinnacle SLI- saying a specific group got a lower relative seniority change than they actually did by using the entire pilot group including new hires in their math formula on one side while on another formula only using active pilots, not the ones furloughed.

 

[big shacks]

The biggest BS to the TA is the longevity pay....(to me at least). 2000-04 hires at XJ getting the super shaft once again. 6,000 dolla before Obamaized...we lost three to four years seniority with the Bloch award and now once again protecting the lifers....unbelievable! How about throwing some of cash to guys about to be downgraded AGAIN!!!!

 

[RJLoser]

Deleted.....

 

[xjhawk]

The biggest BS to the TA is the longevity pay....(to me at least). 2000-04 hires at XJ getting the super shaft once again. 6,000 dolla before Obamaized...we lost three to four years seniority with the Bloch award and now once again protecting the lifers....unbelievable! How about throwing some of cash to guys about to be downgraded AGAIN!!!!

I feel your pain. Colgan pilots with 1/2 my longevity are senior to me. Pinnacle pilots hired in 06-the same. I lose half my seniority while the group 1 XJ pilots get an increase in 14% relative seniority! Now they also get double the money in longevity pay when this thing passes and they will not be down graded to $36 an hour? Typical ALPA bull********************. Nothing mentioned about the hundreds who will be downgraded. Or how about those bull******************** bar graphs they show us being more expensive because of how senior our pilot group is. If that is the case, why is the FO's pay rate being cut so deeply? if we need to be competitive with airlines that dont have 12 year captains, and 8 year FO's, then why is those same airlines 3rd year FO pay better than our 4 year FO pay?

We were lied to when ALPA was negotiating our combined contract in that they said ALPA accountants went over the companies finances and said that the synergy of operations of 3 merged pilot groups would save the company money. They also said that with the merged groups we could expect huge growth. They then used that same lie to give a reason why the colgan pilots were give other pilots seniority. Then during the bankruptcy, they said they were lied to and that the company did not provide all the information to ALPA-but shouldnt accountants know if they are not getting all the information? SHouldnt the lack of information-and then making up crap to tell their pilots in order to get them to vote yes be a lie and be punishable? I am willing to bet that the first pilots Delta hires will be most of the union reps. mark my words. That is a prediction that i am sure will come true within the first year of Delta hiring. That will be the payoff.