US Airways Contract Projections

[dollacrackho]

Lots of new people arriving in the next few years . Lots of people who could give two sh!ts about the current impasse and are ready to work to make this a better place to be and get some reasonable pay rates. Can't happen fast enough.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Thanks Bad Andy. Watching yet another thread being hijacked was irritating enough but then to have blowhards who know absolutely nothing about what 3rd list folks are trying to accomplish come here and trash us. Well that just set me off. For the rest of the target audience. Bad Andy was spot on. Going to work is great. You do not live this East/West crap every day your here. I fly with some great people. Training is top notch. MX is great and those guys REALLY know their way around an Airbus. Some things need to be fixed and that will take some time. If you come here armed with that knowledge then I don't think you will regret your decision.
As for the math Bird. Like I said, Pick up a seniority list and educate yourself. Yes there were new hires on the property for the representation vote and we were allowed to vote. Its all there in black and white, just look at the hire dates I am not doing it for you. As for me making it about you. You did that all on your own with your many examples of veiled threats and disdain for ALL things East. To include the third list. Like I said our small group has made more of an effort for change than you. So now the only thing that should be coming out of your mouth is an Apology and Thank You. Then for god sake do yourself a favor and retire. Your thirty years has exacted a horrible price on your persona. Get out and go find something to bring the joy back to you life.

 

[Flybywire44]

LaGarbage,

Well said. In fact, I think that might be the most words I ever saw you string together at one time...

As for old grumpy, there's not much anyone can do to change his mind. We may as well simply realize that more than a few of the West guys cringe when he opens his mouth in the crew room let alone o the internet... If he wants to hate us 3rd-Listers also, so be it. Its no great loss to us.

An interesting thing about flying on the East is the atmosphere at work. For anyone thinking about coming to work here, listen to what weasel says -- he's right about the work environment. Nearly all the crews you fly with are wonderful. The level of professionalism is remarkable, especially considering everything they have been through in the last decade. I have had countless discussions with guys in which it is clear they disagree with me completely (I'm sure some would love to run over me in the parking lot...), yet the discussions always stay civil and respectful. Yeah, we have a few nut-jobs here, but the 10% rule applies everywhere... Heck, even the rep that they're trying to recall in CLT is a great guy to fly with and can have a rational, respectful discussion.

So, no, it isn't nearly as bleak as some would paint it here. Is there a lot of room for improvement? Absolutely. Are there some underlying issues? Without a doubt. But, anyone that makes the decision not to work here simply because of the East-West issue is "nucking futs." (I'm not commenting on other reasons, simply on that one.). I mean heck, if even I (a third-list, outspoken critic of the last regime and ardent supporter of Nic as th fastest means to a new contract) can get along with everyone (even MCDU, while on his j/s....), think how good it is for everyone not actively involved in any of this bickering...

Great posts from Bad-Andy and LaGarbage Man. imp:

 

[zymotic]

LaGarbage,

Well said. In fact, I think that might be the most words I ever saw you string together at one time...

He's surprisingly articulate for a NY Giants fan.

 

[The Drizzle]

Great posts from Bad-Andy and LaGarbage Man. imp:

 

[MCDU]

LaGarbage,

Well said. In fact, I think that might be the most words I ever saw you string together at one time...

As for old grumpy, there's not much anyone can do to change his mind. We may as well simply realize that more than a few of the West guys cringe when he opens his mouth in the crew room let alone o the internet... If he wants to hate us 3rd-Listers also, so be it. Its no great loss to us.

An interesting thing about flying on the East is the atmosphere at work. For anyone thinking about coming to work here, listen to what weasel says -- he's right about the work environment. Nearly all the crews you fly with are wonderful. The level of professionalism is remarkable, especially considering everything they have been through in the last decade. I have had countless discussions with guys in which it is clear they disagree with me completely (I'm sure some would love to run over me in the parking lot...), yet the discussions always stay civil and respectful. Yeah, we have a few nut-jobs here, but the 10% rule applies everywhere... Heck, even the rep that they're trying to recall in CLT is a great guy to fly with and can have a rational, respectful discussion.

So, no, it isn't nearly as bleak as some would paint it here. Is there a lot of room for improvement? Absolutely. Are there some underlying issues? Without a doubt. But, anyone that makes the decision not to work here simply because of the East-West issue is "nucking futs." (I'm not commenting on other reasons, simply on that one.). I mean heck, if even I (a third-list, outspoken critic of the last regime and ardent supporter of Nic as th fastest means to a new contract) can get along with everyone (even MCDU, while on his j/s....), think how good it is for everyone not actively involved in any of this bickering...

You on a leave Bad Andy. I had fun flying with you in CLT.

M

 

[Bringupthebird]

If he wants to hate us 3rd-Listers also, so be it. Its no great loss to us.

Believe it or not, I don't hate anybody, just their behavior. And when I see the voting records and lack of proactive attempts to change (ie replace) USAPA, then I see that (as would any observer) as tacit approval of the east's tyranny and a willingness to be an accomplice.

But, anyone that makes the decision not to work here simply because of the East-West issue is "nucking futs." (I'm not commenting on other reasons, simply on that one.)

No one is commenting on the other reasons which all come back to the same core issue. The protections that could be afforded in a merger cannot be negotiated because USAPA doesn't feel unity is worth bothering with. Additional pay and other contract improvements will remain elusive for the same reason. I'm sure coming to work is fun when there is no conflict, but that condition is not permanent. If USAPA decided to make unity a priority, most of the current and former leadership would be out in the cold. They need to stoke the animosity between the two groups to deflect attention from their inability to deliver any real value to the pilots in exchange for the millions in dues we have been forced to fork over. I'm glad folks like to come to work and fly their big jet, but please don't be Pollyannas and pretend that the issue will magically work itself out (once enough time has passed that USAPA has effectively stapled the west).

Comraderie is the general default condition for pilot groups. The question every pilot at US should ask is whether or not they want to support the group that depends on devisiveness. The cohesiveness we all want cannot coexist with tyranny.

 

[Metrojet]

None of those pilots have proffered recalls of the USAPA regime and therefore have plainly made their choice of who they will support. None of the 3rd list have stood up and said that west furloughees, fellow US pilots should not be placed below the 3rd list group, they are not new hires. The 3rd list has not stood up for anyone but the Cleary regime and there is no reason to give them special "conscientious objector" status in this un-civil war. When they demonstrate a willingness to take on the USAPA machine, then they will publicly affirm that they are cut from different cloth than the typical east slime.

What galls me the most is the USAPAians who are only willing to move on a combined contract AFTER they have secured their upgrade which is cemented by the No Bump No Flush. It is entirely consistent with their total lack of integrity, which I suppose is some consolation.

But simply having a majority to push an agenda that damages a significant portion of the pilot group will not go without some sort or judicial consequence. Again, the east entices the new hires with the shiny jets, but fails to tell them what awaits them once the veil comes down and both groups end up flying together. Why do you want to hide this from prospectiv e employees? Why is the east so committed to living off lies and half truths? Why di the mailings from Leonidas outlining the real truth of the impact of the Nic result in such an uproar, not over the truth of the content, but over boogiemen "stealing" public info?

The east has never acquired a taste for the truth, have they?

SO you are trying to get the third listers to support your views - so when the AA/US merger comes and the SLI is posted - then they should vote for it when it places the West furloughlee on the bottom of the combined list becasue they didn't bring a "current job" when the merger was announced?

Ok - I got it NOW

Metrojet

 

[Bringupthebird]

delete

 

[Dan Roman]

If you are junior at a regional, then sure, what have you got to lose. Or if you are bouncing around the pattern in a 172, then the risk is pretty minimal. Leaving a senior position at any regional until the USAPA debacle has been concluded (through merger or implosion) would be foolish.

Oh, and FBW, in the intererst of full disclosure, what number of the retirements are CA vs F/Os and others on LTD, etc. who don't yield a CA vacancy?

Very bad advice. USAir will eventually come out of the situation it is in and the next gen of pilots will fly up the list. If they merge with AA it will combine two airlines with huge retirement numbers compared to any one else.
Obviously the sooner you get hired the better. But anyone who does get hired will be very senior in 10 years relative to the industry norm.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Very bad advice. USAir will eventually come out of the situation it is in

10yrs? 20? What good is a rising seniority if it comes welded to meager pay and intolerable animosity between crews? There are better choices out there.

 

[dugan jones]

10yrs? 20? What good is a rising seniority if it comes welded to meager pay and intolerable animosity between crews? There are better choices out there.

If you hate it so much why dont you go somewhere else?

 

[Bringupthebird]

How does my leaving or staying affect the fact that this un-civil war has no resolution (absent the decertification of USAPA and the reunification of ALL US pilots)and will continue to make US an increasingly unpleasant place to work?

Since the folks who have responded are exclusively east (and many are 3rd list) what "magic wand" do you see that will make everything I've predicted be proven wrong?

Those who take their careers seriously and don't go running off based on pie-in-the-sky promises are anxious to hear your explanation.

 

[dugan jones]

It is not an unpleasant place to work for me.....this is my 5th airline and has by far the nicest and friendliest pilots. I was hired in 2007 and every person I talk to says the same thing.

 

[sean67]

How does my leaving or staying affect the fact that this un-civil war has no resolution (absent the decertification of USAPA and the reunification of ALL US pilots)and will continue to make US an increasingly unpleasant place to work?

Since the folks who have responded are exclusively east (and many are 3rd list) what "magic wand" do you see that will make everything I've predicted be proven wrong?

Those who take their careers seriously and don't go running off based on pie-in-the-sky promises are anxious to hear your explanation.

Those who take their job seriously don't make excessive rants on the public internet...they try to make change in house amongst their own... get a life! Wait... you must be General's twin brother

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Starting to realize I am getting caught up in the usual FI nonsense.

 

[Turtle21]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8B617W20121207?irpc=43

 

[B-atch]

The Bird man is just another bitter, out of money, disenchanted westie that has finally realized that retiring as a cappie on the 330 will NEVER happen. His lack of control manifests itself by lashing out. Made obvious by his constant anti-USAPA rants and hollow threats of suits and damages that will NEVER materialize. Like a frustrated sleepy baby, he too will someday cry himself to sleep, only to wake up to a reality that fails to meet HIS wants.....
He is old. Out of time, and out of ideas...

 

[Superbird]

The Bird man is just another bitter, out of money, disenchanted westie that has finally realized that retiring as a cappie on the 330 will NEVER happen. His lack of control manifests itself by lashing out. Made obvious by his constant anti-USAPA rants and hollow threats of suits and damages that will NEVER materialize. Like a frustrated sleepy baby, he too will someday cry himself to sleep, only to wake up to a reality that fails to meet HIS wants.....
He is old. Out of time, and out of ideas...

Says the Usapa fluffer who's profile says "broke, and getting worse" followed by "FO/side sticking to poverty".

 

[B-atch]

Says the Usapa fluffer who's profile says "broke, and getting worse" followed by "FO/side sticking to poverty".

Don't you worry about me birdie, I'm doing just fine... You just worry about blowing your meager earnings on empty promises that do nothing more than feed your imagination...

 

[doh]

If by fine you mean being an unethical liar living on regional wages, you're doing fine.

 

[Superbird]

Don't you worry about me birdie, I'm doing just fine... You just worry about blowing your meager earnings on empty promises that do nothing more than feed your imagination...

Again, says the Usapa cheerleader who brags about how good life is on Loa93. Remind us what the pay rates are that which you consider are "just fine". $85/320 f/o & $124/320 capt. ? What does a 330 capt earn? $159? You have the world by the tail.

 

[Turtle21]

Again, says the Usapa cheerleader who brags about how good life is on Loa93. Remind us what the pay rates are that which you consider are "just fine". $85/320 f/o & $124/320 capt. ? What does a 330 capt earn? $159? You have the world by the tail.

Its always about seniority. That's just reality that any union pilot knows. Everything begins and ends with seniority. No one would ever entertain trading one for the other, even if such a ridiculous, fanciful notion could even ever exist.

Crandall was interviewed by Bloomberg (published today) and he even gets it. The one obstacle he has to the AA/USAir merger: "The key issue is Pilots have to agree on a seniority integration scheme." "I think the merger is doable and there is some appeal.. but it needs that pilot integration cooperation."

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/amer...ble-crandall-says-T~TDX_ApS1WczfVNFmQxtA.html

APA and USAPA get it. Now on the table. LOS +1 for APA, 7 year fence. One contract all pilots on date of signing.

 

[charlie2]

Again, says the Usapa cheerleader who brags about how good life is on Loa93. Remind us what the pay rates are that which you consider are "just fine". $85/320 f/o & $124/320 capt. ? What does a 330 capt earn? $159? You have the world by the tail.

I'm still not sure what you guys and gals are not understanding. We are OK with these rates as opposed to your new hires being our captains. No your guys who were still in training at the time of the merger WILL NOT BE MY CAPTAIN. This is not opinion it is fact. How is your nic working for you so far? I don't think it's working out to well for you...look at the list.

Hey superrobin grow up and get some integrity and respect for women and remove your teenage type avatar. You're one of those AWA new hires aren't you.

 

[B-atch]

If by fine you mean being an unethical liar living on regional wages, you're doing fine.

The day you agree to pay my bills I shall follow your advise. If your not willing to fork out the dough, then STFU...Your nothing more than a hypocrite with a front row seat to OUR fight..Have a nice Christmas!!

 

[doh]

The day you agree to pay my bills I shall follow your advise. If your not willing to fork out the dough, then STFU...Your nothing more than a hypocrite with a front row seat to OUR fight..Have a nice Christmas!!

I'm not advising you at all. I merely point out the facts of your situation. You are an unethical liar who lives on regional wages. You made a personal decision to be unethical, lie and live on regional wages. I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not lying or being unethical. And I'm certainly not living on regional wages!

 

[Superbird]

The day you agree to pay my bills I shall follow your advise. If your not willing to fork out the dough, then STFU...Your nothing more than a hypocrite with a front row seat to OUR fight..Have a nice Christmas!!

I'm sure you meant advice. You take poor advice daily from your Usapa heros, why would anyone expect you to recognize sound advice? Keep digging your hole.

 

[Superbird]

I'm still not sure what you guys and gals are not understanding. We are OK with these rates as opposed to your new hires being our captains. No your guys who were still in training at the time of the merger WILL NOT BE MY CAPTAIN. This is not opinion it is fact. How is your nic working for you so far? I don't think it's working out to well for you...look at the list.

Hey superrobin grow up and get some integrity and respect for women and remove your teenage type avatar. You're one of those AWA new hires aren't you.

A Usapa supporter suggesting integrity, that's rich! Merry Loa93 Xmas (what are you going on 10 years of it). Still waiting for usapas lup to materialize. What's the hold up?

Glad you like my avatar Chuck Duece.

 

[Turtle21]

What hold up?

President's Message


Fellow Pilots,

This afternoon, December 10th, your Officers, Board of Pilots Representatives (BPR) and Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) conducted a two-hour informational conference call regarding the potential merger of US Airways and AMR (American Airlines).

With the approval of the BPR, your union has entered into discussions about a potential merger with AMR, Allied Pilots Association (APA), the Unsecured Creditors Committee (UCC) and US Airways management. These discussions begin this week in Dallas. President Gary Hummel and Executive Vice President Steve Smyser will join the NAC, USAPA Professional Negotiator and USAPA General Counsel in these talks.

Because of the work your BPR has to do, the Regular Quarterly BPR Meeting will go on as planned. Vice President Steve Bradford will preside over this meeting. We will do our best to keep you informed as developments occur.
Respectfully,


Gary Hummel - President

 

[B-atch]

I'm not advising you at all. I merely point out the facts of your situation. You are an unethical liar who lives on regional wages. You made a personal decision to be unethical, lie and live on regional wages. I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not lying or being unethical. And I'm certainly not living on regional wages!

Ethics depends on individual vantage point. If you asked the 3000 US east pilots all will tell you that the Nic IS UNETHICAL. I will advise you in a fact of life. Nothing good or bad lasts FOREVER.. My bad will soon come to an end, one way or the other.. In your case, better start saving for the inevitable..
Again I reiterate, put your money were your mouth is. If not, then STFU!!