SWAPA looking to capture more Capt seats

[Lear70]

He and a bunch of FO's wrote a scathing email to Steve Chase of why they will not vote for him again.

Wrote a letter to the wrong guy.

Did Steve Chase take full advantage of the position SWAPA was in with this deal? Absolutely. Does his behavior in that and since then with some of the letters that have been sent out make me want to see him remain in office? No, not really (would rather have seen Kuwitzky remain in office). Did he have any power to make this deal any better for the SWAPA piots? Absolutely not, unless he wanted to gamble in arbitration (which the SWAPA BoD clearly did not want to do).

This deal, this ENTIRE DEAL, with the exception of a few small caveats here and there, was crafted by SWA management. They inserted themselves into the middle of an Allegheny-Mohawk seniority integration and mandated the outcome with thinly-veiled threats for both groups if they failed to play along.

Call it what you want, but that's what they did. So if there's any angst among SWA pilots, they need to point it in the direction of who crafted the bulk of the Agreement, and it's not Steve Chase and it's not SWAPA or ALPA.

Management did what they thought was best for their company, worried about a UAir/AWA repeat. Can't say as I blame them for that approach, but the problem is that it has real fallout for pilots on both sides that we will live with for the majority of the rest of our careers. That's going to take a while to get past. Everyone has their own approach to it; mine is disengaging from aviation, realizing it's just a job albeit a well-paying one, and focusing my energy on enjoying other facets of life: family, hobbies, etc.

I come on here a few times a week to get my irritation out (usually when I'm on the road), but it's been a month since I've even bothered trying to keep in touch with what the Association is doing. I get a Contract Compliance call every week or so, help some people out, and just do my thing and go home. On the up-side, been doing 24 hr CUN/LAX/SJU layovers every other week, got back into Crossfit, starting training for a Triathlon, got my boat running again, new deck is built, got a new Kamado and enjoying cooler grilling weather.

Life is pretty good when I can forget I'm going to be an F/O until I'm in my mid-50's and I can tune out this stuff for a while.

 

[SWA/FO]

The days of industry-leading pay

I don't think we ever had that title.

 

[texman]

That's something I have to explain to some of the SWA F/O's I run into when I'm jumpseating to and from work in MCO.

They're getting really aggravated that all our CA's are coming into MCO senior to them, pushing all of them down (or out). When I explain to them that the reason it happened is because SWA management engineered the deal that way (making all our CA's F/O's), they get a little confused until I explain it.

I looked at it again, and Jamie's seniority calculator hasn't been updated to reflect it, but with the 717's going away and all those CA's now becoming F/O's, a LARGE number of the SWA F/O's are going back on reserve in "senior" bases, many will be displaced, and most of the F/O's at AAI will be lucky to hold a line in PHX or LAS, probably ending up on reserve if we want something East of the Mississippi.

The senior top 15% of the F/O list at SWA are the only ones who benefit from this (those who will upgrade due to the retained 737 classics, deliveries of new 737's and deliveries of our 737's) and the junior SWA CA's who will get off reserve. The bottom 85% of the SWA F/O's aren't going to feel any LUV anytime soon with all our CA's coming in as F/O's.

Plenty of irritation to go around unless/until the growth kicks in at 15% ROIC as-promised. If that growth doesn't happen when we hit that metric...

YUP! This sums it up in a nut shell. Our top FO's get their upgrade. I have ran into some that are biatching about sitting reserve, a lot of them are now wanting the reserve rules changed for the better. I laugh and say how does it feel to be on reserve? I say to them it sucks doesn't it! Welcome to our world BUDDY! I laugh and laugh! I do feel sorry for our bottom folk's on both ends capt and fo. I just try to roll with the UFC punches we keep getting.

 

[Flyer1015]

What is the course of action that will happen with SLI#2 for Airtan pilots from 2013-15, and how does that compare with what would have been the course of action with SLI#1 from 2013-15?

I don't get why there are pilots saying they were deceived by management about the 717s staying? This is southwest we are talking about, and for them to take on an continue to operate a non-737 fleet is not going to work. Personally, I always thought once Airtran was bought, the 717 days were numbered at the new SWA.

 

[redflyer65]

I don't get why there are pilots saying they were deceived by management about the 717s staying? This is southwest we are talking about, and for them to take on an continue to operate a non-737 fleet is not going to work. Personally, I always thought once Airtran was bought, the 717 days were numbered at the new SWA.

Completely agree. I always thought it was crazy to think SW would operate a 717 when it goes against everything Southwest has ever stood for..

Lear great post and I agree that it was completely crafted by management. It's all said and done. To say DOH was fair between Airtran QOL/Benefits and Southwest QOL/Benefits is more than a bit of a stretch. I understand you wanting that, but those are two very different metrics. YMMV.

 

[fam62c]

I'm not surprised at the "B scale " proposal. By allowing the AT guys to fly for a division of the company at a lower pay scale for years the camel got it's nose under the tent and management knows that this is something that can be sold. They know that the people already on property will allow this to happen if there's something in it for them or if it prevents them from losing something. This is why you never allow multiple levels of compensation. Now SWAPA will have to either give in to the flattened, lengthened payscale concept or burn up negotiating capital that could be used for other things to prevent it. Get ready for a negotiation that will go on for many years like it does in the rest of the industry. SWA isn't going to give the pilots anything else, they will be lucky to hold on to what they have.

 

[redflyer65]

The B-scale was floated to make it LOOK like they would take something. SWAPA won't agree to anything like that. All they have to do is point to the Dispatch agreement and the rise of the Executive VP level with 'new' compensation package that it entails. These are just opening positions that equate to sabre rattling. It's also easy to point out that Gary decided to buy a company and only wanted 30-40% of it. His choice, not ours.

 

[General Lee]

I'm not surprised at the "B scale " proposal. By allowing the AT guys to fly for a division of the company at a lower pay scale for years the camel got it's nose under the tent and management knows that this is something that can be sold. They know that the people already on property will allow this to happen if there's something in it for them or if it prevents them from losing something. This is why you never allow multiple levels of compensation. Now SWAPA will have to either give in to the flattened, lengthened payscale concept or burn up negotiating capital that could be used for other things to prevent it. Get ready for a negotiation that will go on for many years like it does in the rest of the industry. SWA isn't going to give the pilots anything else, they will be lucky to hold on to what they have.

I agree. If management wanted a "B-scale", then I doubt they wanted to increase the "A scale." I see SWAPA trying to keep status quo as long as they can, and negotiations will continue for a long while.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[texman]

I don't think any new hire at SWA should be on a B Scale. We are no different, we just got here first.

 

[ngsp]

leave me in my position so that i don't have to commute to the west coast and i will fly for the rest of my career on airtran payscales. the swapa brats just don't get it. it was never about the money. we just wanted to feel like we were wanted and appreciated and not feel like an outsider. you know, the whole one LUV thing, but i guess there is just not enough toys for all the kids. so here we are, 1700 pissed off airtran guys, 3000 pissed of southwest f/o's just to make 300 or so senior f/o's happy with a forever junior upgrade. that is some dumb a** math in anyones book. they were so hell bent on taking our captain seats that they never considered what it was going to do to the bottom 50% of the chosen ones and now they are mad after reality sets in. breaks my heart buttercup.

i look forward to the fact that i can make someones life miserable by bumping them out of their chosen base as a senior f/o. it makes me smile everytime i see an f/o in the concourse to know that i can take his position at will. the guys that are upgrading will be in OAK for a very long time when 1/1/15 rolls around. we will start taking back what was unjustly stolen from us. you can keep your culture. we all know the truth and it is not pretty. i will show up, shut up, cooperate and graduate, but don't expect many of the airtran guys to support a bunch of self centered, spoiled rotten, never had a bad day in their career bullies.

we wanted date of hire and swapa wanted us unemployed. we got right down the middle of the two with alot of help from our new step dad.

you guys keep telling us to suck it up and live by what we voted on. i agree, but take a long look in the mirror and take you own advice.

signed
a soon to be senior f/o with a smile on my face.

ps. and steve chase can kiss my ****

 

[jonjuan]

I agree. If management wanted a "B-scale", then I doubt they wanted to increase the "A scale." I see SWAPA trying to keep status quo as long as they can, and negotiations will continue for a long while.


Bye Bye---General Lee

And that both makes you happy and a d-bag.

 

[redflyer65]

Date of Hire was a pipe dream. If ALPA sold that to you, then you need a refund. I thought Agreement One was better for all, but it's water under the bridge at this point.

 

[Juniority]

leave me in my position so that i don't have to commute to the west coast and i will fly for the rest of my career on airtran payscales. the swapa brats just don't get it. it was never about the money. we just wanted to feel like we were wanted and appreciated and not feel like an outsider. you know, the whole one LUV thing, but i guess there is just not enough toys for all the kids. so here we are, 1700 pissed off airtran guys, 3000 pissed of southwest f/o's just to make 300 or so senior f/o's happy with a forever junior upgrade. that is some dumb a** math in anyones book. they were so hell bent on taking our captain seats that they never considered what it was going to do to the bottom 50% of the chosen ones and now they are mad after reality sets in. breaks my heart buttercup.

i look forward to the fact that i can make someones life miserable by bumping them out of their chosen base as a senior f/o. it makes me smile everytime i see an f/o in the concourse to know that i can take his position at will. the guys that are upgrading will be in OAK for a very long time when 1/1/15 rolls around. we will start taking back what was unjustly stolen from us. you can keep your culture. we all know the truth and it is not pretty. i will show up, shut up, cooperate and graduate, but don't expect many of the airtran guys to support a bunch of self centered, spoiled rotten, never had a bad day in their career bullies.

we wanted date of hire and swapa wanted us unemployed. we got right down the middle of the two with alot of help from our new step dad.

you guys keep telling us to suck it up and live by what we voted on. i agree, but take a long look in the mirror and take you own advice.

signed
a soon to be senior f/o with a smile on my face.

ps. and steve chase can kiss my ****

Hope you're able to relax and get through a three or four day without blowing up the cockpit.

Chances are the guy sitting to your left had next to nothing to do with putting you in your current situation and he probably just wants to enjoy his Starbucks and get to the hotel on time (or if it's a PM trip, anywhere less than 2 hours late).

 

[humveedriver]

I think S.C.'s little update would have been fine if he left out the upgrade part. How can he be that much of a clown? Doesn't somebody in SWAPA help him with these releases? I thought the whole thing was pretty good till I got to the upgrade part, and then I was like; " Dude! That was so 10 months ago!"

 

[vv100]

leave me in my position so that i don't have to commute to the west coast and i will fly for the rest of my career on airtran payscales. the swapa brats just don't get it. it was never about the money. we just wanted to feel like we were wanted and appreciated and not feel like an outsider. you know, the whole one LUV thing, but i guess there is just not enough toys for all the kids. so here we are, 1700 pissed off airtran guys, 3000 pissed of southwest f/o's just to make 300 or so senior f/o's happy with a forever junior upgrade. that is some dumb a** math in anyones book. they were so hell bent on taking our captain seats that they never considered what it was going to do to the bottom 50% of the chosen ones and now they are mad after reality sets in. breaks my heart buttercup.

i look forward to the fact that i can make someones life miserable by bumping them out of their chosen base as a senior f/o. it makes me smile everytime i see an f/o in the concourse to know that i can take his position at will. the guys that are upgrading will be in OAK for a very long time when 1/1/15 rolls around. we will start taking back what was unjustly stolen from us. you can keep your culture. we all know the truth and it is not pretty. i will show up, shut up, cooperate and graduate, but don't expect many of the airtran guys to support a bunch of self centered, spoiled rotten, never had a bad day in their career bullies.

we wanted date of hire and swapa wanted us unemployed. we got right down the middle of the two with alot of help from our new step dad.

you guys keep telling us to suck it up and live by what we voted on. i agree, but take a long look in the mirror and take you own advice.

signed
a soon to be senior f/o with a smile on my face.

ps. and steve chase can kiss my ****

Stay classy Tranny.

Thanks for the left seat.

Biatch.