AirTran thoughts on Kelly's Disposal of SL10

[waveflyer]

Yep, 15 years now is only because of the increase to age 65.

How's the workout and interview prep going PCL??
Don't give up man, we'll get you in the front door at your dream job-

(but seriously, you became an airline pilot and didn't know bases are a very fluid thing?)

 

[Lear70]

But do not get it twisted- if you want to be at delta, you should pursue EVERY avenue possible for making it happen. And don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

That's my biggest problem with GK pulling the trigger on AT- I don't want anybody bidding in the system who doesn't want to be here.

Never said I wanted to go.

Part of my job with the Association is doing the math and figuring out things for the grievance committee and Association to put price tags on for negotiations when it comes down to figuring out grievance issues and how to resolve them.

Some of our guys would have liked the opportunity for a fair integration with Delta since it didn't happen with SWA. They didn't get it and they should have.

Don't assume you know everything about everyone because they post ideas on here. Unless they say what they personally want, you might (read probably will) be assuming wrong.

FWIW, if it had been a fair seniority integration as it should have been with Delta, I'd have signed up (as would the vast majority of our Captains who likely would have kept their seat in an ALPA-ALPA integration). Date of hire there beats 88% here. However, since that won't happen and I'd be going over at first year pay, bottom of the list, etc if I wanted to go, I'm not interested.

It's just a numbers game at this point since we aren't feeling the "culture", nothing personal, just a business decision for what's best for us and our families. I think most AirTran pilots feel about the same right now. In the future maybe we'll "own it", but for now that's asking a bit much after the way this all went down.

Just have to give it some time... :beer:

 

[NuGuy]

FWIW, if it had been a fair seniority integration as it should have been with Delta, I'd have signed up (as would the vast majority of our Captains who likely would have kept their seat in an ALPA-ALPA integration). Date of hire there beats 88% here. However, since that won't happen and I'd be going over at first year pay, bottom of the list, etc if I wanted to go...

Forget that plan Lear. NWA couldn't get DOH, despite having made an excellent case for it.

Nu

 

[Lear70]

By the way, in answer to your question, I was told a 3 year upgrade when I hired on here, and doing the math it should have been closer to 4 1/2 - 5 years. Then we started deferring deliveries when the economy turned south.

With our previous cost-structure and routes in place, we would have been turning a nice profit last year and this year without SWA and would likely have been taking our deliveries again, putting my upgrade about 18-24 months out. Our CA's make about what your F/O's do, so I'm basically in the boat of even money until I upgrade, but doing it from the right seat instead of the left.

In the last 10 years of my career (when I'm projected to upgrade at SWA), IF our wages never moved (which isn't a fair assumption, but for comparing the "snapshot" at the moment, it'll have to do), I will make approximately $750-850k more with the merger than without.

So, in essence, I traded 15 more years as an F/O for approximately $1 Million dollars more of career earnings, including 401(k) match, profit sharing, etc. I'm sure I'll appreciate that extra money more when I retire, but for now, it sucks to think about being in the right seat 15 more years, but that's life.

Suck it up, move on, and enjoy the other, more important things in life like family, vacations, etc, while being thankful for a job in a very uncertain industry and economy. Life could be a lot worse. :beer:

 

[Lear70]

Forget that plan Lear. NWA couldn't get DOH, despite having made an excellent case for it.

Nu

What they DID get was their CA seats protected and an integration pretty close to their relative seniority on their respective equipment, i.e. wide body to wide body, SNB ro SNB, etc, with an immediate snap-up to Delta pay rates and they kept their frozen pension.

Again, that's what I was looking to see with this merger, and I don't think I was alone in that viewpoint among the AAI pilots, which is the problem: unmet expectations. If the process agreement hadn't spelled out arbitration as the back-stop for everything and most of us feeling that's what arbitration would get us, our expectations wouldn't have been there. But it did, and they were, and now there's emotional fallout from those unmet expectations.

That's where the angst comes from on the AAI side. I also believe it's probably where the angst comes from on the SWA side. Prior acquisitions were a staple or non-integration at SWA, so people probably had that in mind with us, even though it couldn't be done. Unmet expectations and increased upgrade times are hard to swallow there as well.

We all have a ways to go to put this behind us, but I believe we will.

 

[scoreboardII]

Fedex, UPS would be a better choice

My 'aquaintence" who went to FEDEX a few years ago is riding the pine, or so I've been told.

 

[scoreboardII]

By the way, in answer to your question, I was told a 3 year upgrade when I hired on here, and doing the math it should have been closer to 4 1/2 - 5 years. Then we started deferring deliveries when the economy turned south.

With our previous cost-structure and routes in place, we would have been turning a nice profit last year and this year without SWA and would likely have been taking our deliveries again, putting my upgrade about 18-24 months out. Our CA's make about what your F/O's do, so I'm basically in the boat of even money until I upgrade, but doing it from the right seat instead of the left.

In the last 10 years of my career (when I'm projected to upgrade at SWA), IF our wages never moved (which isn't a fair assumption, but for comparing the "snapshot" at the moment, it'll have to do), I will make approximately $750-850k more with the merger than without.

So, in essence, I traded 15 more years as an F/O for approximately $1 Million dollars more of career earnings, including 401(k) match, profit sharing, etc. I'm sure I'll appreciate that extra money more when I retire, but for now, it sucks to think about being in the right seat 15 more years, but that's life.

Suck it up, move on, and enjoy the other, more important things in life like family, vacations, etc, while being thankful for a job in a very uncertain industry and economy. Life could be a lot worse. :beer:

I hear you Lear, but I was told to my face by Gary Kelly USAir would be bankrupt and we would upgrade in 3 years, that time passed 6 years ago. The problem is over here, all the bluster of "it's going to be wonderful" and "you won't recognize this place in 5 years" has proven to be just that, bluster and a recognition that this place is nothing like as good as it was 9 years ago. So point of fact, I do not recognize this place, they got that one right

 

[PCL_128]

(but seriously, you became an airline pilot and didn't know bases are a very fluid thing?)

I went to work for AirTran, you dolt. Every pilot was based in Atlanta when I was hired, and 85% of us based in Atlanta when the merger was finalized. Getting kicked out of Atlanta was never even a remote possibility until your management came along.

 

[Marko Ramius]

My 'aquaintence" who went to FEDEX a few years ago is riding the pine, or so I've been told.

Perhaps they went to UPS who does have pilots on furlough. Fedex doesn't have anybody on the street though and has been slowly hiring of late.

 

[Cometman]

How's the workout and interview prep going PCL??
Don't give up man, we'll get you in the front door at your dream job-

(but seriously, you became an airline pilot and didn't know bases are a very fluid thing?)

Why would you tell him to apply at Delta? You and everybody else knows that there is no chance in hell that he could be hired by Delta. Have you seen his picture? Do you know where he came from? It is cruel to tell him knowing that he could never get there. He is with you because of the merger otherwise he would not be with you either.