Jetblue's Problem

[fifty30retard]

Thank you, me and a few dozen of my friends have had wonderful ridiculous career paths after picking airlines that would never go out business because they were making millions, places like Braniff, Eastern, National, Pam-Am, etc, etc, etc.

Your failures shouldn't be an albatross around our necks. Get over it. Deregulation and Frank Lorenzo killed your airlines, not ALPA.

 

[pilotyip]

Your failures shouldn't be an albatross around our necks. Get over it. Deregulation and Frank Lorenzo killed your airlines, not ALPA.

Yes I am largely responsible for these airline failures, even though they were all ALPA represented airlines.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Yes I am largely responsible for these airline failures, even though they were all ALPA represented airlines.

And more airlines have failed that fly Airbuses than Boeings..... so it really must be Airbus Industries' fault.

 

[BeachBummer]

Yes I am largely responsible for these airline failures, even though they were all ALPA represented airlines.

I'm wondering? When those airlines folded up, how much money did the union leave with? How much money did key managment leave with when they decided to shut down thier failed operation?

It's too bad Branson wasn't around back then to invest in your companies, he could have bought all the empty seats.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not managments fault, maybe the banks are at fault. The didn't wanna invest in a failing "managment" plan. Must be the banks, good thing times have changed now they give money to everyone!

I wonder how many different reasons we can come up with for a failed airline so that it wasn't managments fault? Anyone?

ooh I'll start, it was the fuel!! fuel too high. How much was fuel back in 1985?

Next?

 

[Lake Alice]

Despite another yip diatribe a union has not shut down an airline. Airline ownership shuts down an airline. I'm sorry you never worked for a reputable carrier. Whether it was bad luck or bad character that kept you from those jobs is debatable. ALPA closing down an airline is not up for debate.

 

[pilotyip]

Despite another yip diatribe a union has not shut down an airline. Airline ownership shuts down an airline. I'm sorry you never worked for a reputable carrier. Whether it was bad luck or bad character that kept you from those jobs is debatable. ALPA closing down an airline is not up for debate.

True when managemnt can no longer make a profit due to uncontrollable costs it shuts the company down. What is wrong with profit? Without profit a company has no access to capital; without capital there is no growth, no more jobs. Profitable companies, sell stock to raise equity, a preferred method of raising money as opposed to borrowing. Profit can be used to pay dividends, which may raise the price of the stock, giving the company even more capital.

How about a union run country? Just asking if anyone is familiar with the history of England under a pro-labour gov't. In period of unparallel economic growth worldwide, England's was in a continual decline because decisions were made in favor of the workers, not productivity or economics. For instant they continued to make steel in 1970 the same way they did in 1939, using 10 times as many workers as the German's and Japanese. They could not compete in world markets and forced industries in England to buy English steel at above world prices for inferior steel for products that could not be sold in the world markets. Thatcher kinda fixed it. Her slogan from her overwhelming 1987 election “Labour believes in turning workers against owners, we believe in turning labour into owners.

 

[Lake Alice]

Wow. Quoting Thatcher.
Forget nationalized health care. Nationalized education. Free higher education.

You are so bitter about expecting Zantop, and every other bad career choice you made, to survive despite horrible ownership and incompetent leadership you are grasping at straws.

When you have lived in England, not just read about it, come talk to me.

 

[Lake Alice]

And before you waste all of our time with an irrelevant anti-union explanation take into consideration the economies of the country's producing products.

 

[pilotyip]

Wow. Quoting Thatcher.
Forget nationalized health care. Nationalized education. Free higher education.

You are so bitter about expecting Zantop, and every other bad career choice you made, to survive despite horrible ownership and incompetent leadership you are grasping at straws.

When you have lived in England, not just read about it, come talk to me.

How about this from a guy who lived in England?

From conpilot

Anyway, yes I lived in England from 1956 until 1962. One way I can tell you just how the Labour Party was running England into the ground, was that World War Two rationing was still in effect. That's right, all rationing in England finally ended in July, 1958. The rationing of food had ended in 1954, however, coal which 90% of homes in the UK were heated by, was still rationed until 1958.

The primary reasons for this was the price controls and production limits put into place by the Labour Government. Due to the artificial price controls, wages were held low due to those price controls. Because of this England could not compete in the open market competing against more open free world markets. Because of union protectionism by the Labor Party coal prices were, by law, kept at unrealistic high levels, much higher than the prices in Europe.

Prior to and during World War Two English steel was one of England's most sought after exports. After the war due to the artificial high price of English coal the British Steel Industry could no longer compete on the open market. To make up for the lack of profit due to declining export of steel, the Labour Party forced all of the English Industries to only use English coal, coal imports from Europe were banned.

Thus the once mighty steel industry of the UK was doomed and the trickle down effect started the destruction of the UK auto industry, aircraft industry and the once mighty maritime industry. In a futile attempt to offset this trend, the Labour Party raised taxes on everything to subsidize the industries, to keep the Labour unions happy.

Make no mistake about this, really until Thatcher and the Tory Party took power, the labor unions controlled Great Britain through the Labour Party. The Labour Party was a combination of socialists and union leaders. As long as the Labour Party gave what the union leaders wanted, the rank and file union members voted straight Labour.

BTW Me bitter, I don't think so, My bad career choice, luck and timing had nothing to do with this? Besides I have had a ball.

 

[Smarta$$]

1950's. Really?

 

[Lake Alice]

1950's really? Talk about out of touch with reality.

 

[ClrdForOption]

1950's. Really?

1950's really? Talk about out of touch with reality.

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"
- Winston Churchill

The more things change the more they stay the same... Instead of constant flaming back and forth, how about we look at the different perspectives that YIP can give us and maybe learn something from them. I may not always agree, but it is a different perspective than the usual 'union good, everything else bad... Internet Argument!!!!' parroting.

 

[Lake Alice]

Hahahahahahahahahahah...aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh....hahahahahahahahahah


Best post of 2012

 

[pilotyip]

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"
- Winston Churchill

The more things change the more they stay the same... Instead of constant flaming back and forth, how about we look at the different perspectives that YIP can give us and maybe learn something from them. I may not always agree, but it is a different perspective than the usual 'union good, everything else bad... Internet Argument!!!!' parroting.

Thank you for acknowledging there could be two sides to every discussion. Although not well received on a narrowly focused site such as this. Unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security.

 

[N813CA]

So not worth a whole lot right now.

 

[Smarta$$]

Thank you for acknowledging there could be two sides to every discussion. Although not well received on a narrowly focused site such as this. Unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security.

Really yip, which 2 sides are you advocating for? You are a one-note-wonder. Management great, unions terrible.

Looks like you promote ONE side. No balance. None. Just ONE side.

 

[pilotyip]

Really yip, which 2 sides are you advocating for? You are a one-note-wonder. Management great, unions terrible.

Looks like you promote ONE side. No balance. None. Just ONE side.

Not true, any more than you are a union can do no wrong and all management sucks guy. You can have all the union you want, me I could care less if I am paid decent, fly decent equipment and have my days off honored. If it is a bad place to work, I go find another job. I fly because I like to, so I don't worry about the other stuff.

 

[Smarta$$]

Yep, One sided Yip.

 

[pilotyip]

Yep, One sided Yip.

so this means everything union is all good with no downside and everything management is all bad with no upside? I don't even believe that in reverse

 

[Lake Alice]

One sided yip. That's all you need to know.

Well that and referencing thatcher from the 40's.