ASA DTW CP pulls IAD pilot offline for refusing aircraft

[Brody1]

I had a similar issue with a ATL CP back in 1999. Refused a E-120 because of no working radar. Area forecast showed TP in the vicinity. I refused the airplane with out a radar. This former CP freaked out, and then made me and him fly the trip. (Removed the FO to prove to me that it was not needed) Of course we got a new radar control panel and blasted off.
In the end the radar was needed, but the action desire for you to fly an airplane with a perfectly legal deferral was the same. Stand your ground, you do not have to sign the dispatch release. One thing I learned from this is, be tactful and forceful. Do not refuse a jet on a company radio freq, and call them on the phone.

If they want to have administrative action on a pilot, so be it, but you have a moral and legal obligation not just to the yourself, but to your passengers and FAR's. They will get over it, but if they do not the grievance and arbitration process are great at resolving these sort of things.

The grievance and arbitration process are NOT great at resolving these issues. I can think of several cases where honest, well-intentioned pilots were hung out to dry. Not every time, mind you, but enough to know that you're rolling the dice when you choose to go through the process. Despite this, I strongly advocate standing your ground if you feel you're right. It's just as important for the 'next' pilot to back up the decision of the original pilot's refusal to fly. In my experience, backing up a fellow pilot's 'no-go' decision is extremely rare at the regional level. One does not have to necessarily agree with the pilot's decision, but just agree that every pilot does (and should) have the right-of-refusal. One day it might be you.

 

[SpaceShipEarth]

20 goes to 380???

 

[dustrpilot]

Screw that. Last flight of the day, no APU, fuel indicator problems, planes been making turds all day and now the A/P is broken too? No thanks.

 

[Simon Says]

You are either fatigued or not. It has nothing to do with the mtc discrepancies on the aircraft. You can't tell the CP that you're fatigued if the AP is deferred but not fatigued if you get an aircraft that has a working AP. Gotta be more to the story.

Absolutely you can.

 

[Simon Says]

An autopilot deferred, by itself, is no problem. In fact I'm a staunch advocate of being able to hand-fly the airplane (raw data if need be) in any configuration at any time.

But, here's that thing:

Accidents (and incidents) are usually caused by many links in the chain. These links are usually not significant risks by themselves, i.e., deferred autopilot/pack/apu, weather, long day, FNG, short runway, etc. Many of these links are inevitable, and we willingly take them on knowing they are part of the task at hand.

At some point, though, the known links eventually, add up to make an unsafe situation - especially when we consider the latent risks inherent in any flight. It is up to pilots to decide when there are already too many links in the equation and either remove some of the links, or cut the chain altogether.

Unfortunately, the type and number of links allowed is not spelled out in black and white. And, there is only ONE person on the planet who can make that call.

Very well said. I agree 100%

I have been here almost 14 years and just a few months ago I refused an aircraft. 4 factors played a role. I told scheduling/dispatch/chief pilot...I will go if you change just one of the factors, but all 4 I was not going.
1. No autopilot
2. Thunderstorms along route of flight
3. Flight is on the eastern sea-board
4. Green FO

 

[DeucesWild]

1. No autopilot
2. Thunderstorms along route of flight
3. Flight is on the eastern sea-board
4. Green FO

Sounds like an adventure and welcome change from the same old, every flight is the same, let the A/P take us there, daily routine we get accustomed to.

You were weak to rufuse the aircraft.

 

[Medeco]

Sounds like an adventure and welcome change from the same old, every flight is the same, let the A/P take us there, daily routine we get accustomed to.

You were weak to rufuse the aircraft.

Paying passengers dont want an adventure, and knowing when to stand up and say no is far from weak.

Grow up...

 

[Flyguy1226]

How do we still have Green FOs right now?

 

[Medeco]

lowtime Fo's that were furloughed and did ZERO flying while out. We have them.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

20 goes to 380???

25 pax, ISA-5, 7000LBS of fuel, easy!