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AA or Delta?
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A more apt question is, do you want to work for a company with a management team with a vision of running an airline (Delta) or one whose management is intent on breaking labor and richly rewarding themselves in yearly bonuses while complaining that labor is the reason they can't make money? (fill in the blank)
Delta all the way...
Delta all the way...
Anderson Running an airline? what a joke....EAL,CAL NWA history will repeat itself. Wait during you contract time and talk to us about Anderson..
xjhawk
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Don't people usually just apply to all and go to the first one that hires them? I just exclude the ones I do not want to work at and hope the best one calls first. Besides, one never knows what is right around the corner for an airline. I think Hawaiian, Alaska, United, American and Delta are all places I would want to go. There are pros and cons for all, but I stand by my statement that one usually applies to many and takes the first
General Lee
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American and Delta will both have a lot of retirements coming up, with AA probably having more because a lot of their FOs are the same age as their Captains. (UAL will also be retiring a lot, and I think I heard they will be retiring one pilot every 18 minutes starting later this year).
So, advancement at both airlines could be quick up the ladder, compared to the last 10 years of course. Next look at the contracts, and viability of the business plans. The APA is doing advanced talks with their management as we speak, but nobody knows if that would keep them out of eventual BK. (hopefully it will) The DL contract is a good contract, and with high profits last year and expected this year (Q3 this year is estimated at about $790 million), bodes well for a better contract soon, which is up for openers early next year I believe.
Then, you can always look at bases where you might want to live eventually. I think both are good airlines, but one currently is having some financial problems that need to be addressed, just like the other airlines addressed in their BKs unfortunately. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
So, advancement at both airlines could be quick up the ladder, compared to the last 10 years of course. Next look at the contracts, and viability of the business plans. The APA is doing advanced talks with their management as we speak, but nobody knows if that would keep them out of eventual BK. (hopefully it will) The DL contract is a good contract, and with high profits last year and expected this year (Q3 this year is estimated at about $790 million), bodes well for a better contract soon, which is up for openers early next year I believe.
Then, you can always look at bases where you might want to live eventually. I think both are good airlines, but one currently is having some financial problems that need to be addressed, just like the other airlines addressed in their BKs unfortunately. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
The delta contract is not a good contract. Airtran/valujet guys get paid more plus the Delta guys get PBS on top of it...then throw in Codeshare both domestic and international and you have one giant sh&$t sandwich......but Gential/OYS is living in her own little fantasy world like Obama....
Godspeed!!!
Godspeed!!!
spacecadet1
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That's actually good advice, General. Nice to see a post like that. You have some thinking to do too, to leave Airtran for AA or DL. Could be the right move, depending on how this AAI/SWA integration goes.
n757st
It's always sunny in JFK
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If UAL is going to retire 29000 pilots next year, sign me up!
No matter which airline you get hired at, you'll be able to look back 10/20 years later and see where you should have gone with another.
Pick whichever one you want to fly for and don't look back.
It's one every 18 hours. I'm surprised; you normally do a sanity check on the math before posting.
Pick whichever one you want to fly for and don't look back.
It's one every 18 hours. I'm surprised; you normally do a sanity check on the math before posting.
Its a glass half full approach. I would have lost it a long time ago if I thought about all the negativity we have all put up with the last 10 years.
Hey.. Bonus! Cactus may implement flowthrough!
General Lee
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If I were you, I wouldn't count on Delta either. For everyone else though, there are rumors out there of maybe 300-400 newhires thanks to the NYC slot swap and proposed FAA rule changes. Many of those could be Compass and Mesaba flow ups, but not all.
Bye Bye---General Lee
slaquer5
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Yeah, those three companies are the only ones that make this a good career. Give me a break. It's like saying getting on with Nike is the only job that people should have in footwear. If you can't get on there, leave the industry. Those three may be the best at this point, but that doesn't mean the others aren't worth working for.
Just like how United used to be the golden spoon if you got on there.
Exactly. The same as getting on at SWA during the early days as well. They wouldn't have made his top 3 but now they are there.
... they didn't mention that they were going to shove that golden spoon up my rectum when I got hired at UAL in 2000 ...
WayBack
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Anderson was the guy to pull them out of BK, not the guy to run them in the future.
I agree with your contract talk as well, especially with Lee Moak as ALPO President....he loves them RJ's!
Whine Lover
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" AA or Delta? "
The Question is a "Trick" Question.
Restated : " How would you like to "F" up your Life more? "
If you are less than 30 years old, and are STILL thinking this is a career/"profession" you might want to commit to ... You need to sit back and start using the God Given Brain and/or Talents you already possess.
This is NOT 1948-78.
This a POST REGULATORY MARKET that is nothing other than a deteriorating series of Labor/Management agressions, faltering markets, declining prices and products, and ( basically ) a free for all "Race-To-The Bottom" ....of a VERY Deep Hole, of which we have not seen the bottom just YET.
Seriously, I have had a great ride and wouldn't change a thing. This is not Sour Grapes. This is not 30 years ago, when Airline jobs were something to ASPIRE to.
I would ask that you all give caution to your thoughts as to the above question.
For the young Men who seek to proceed down the Airline path at this time ( And, it pains me to say it ) you should seriously consider another direction.
The above ponderings USE to hold much validity and honor..."Gee, I hope I can get hired at American, or Delta, or Continental, or Pan Am ..."
Now, it holds the same value as saying.... " Gee, I hope I can get hired with McDonalds, Burger King, Waffle House, or Denny's..."
If you are already in this....You hang on and do the best you can.
If you want to join The Club...Well, here's my advice to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqnoULgD30
YKMKR
The Question is a "Trick" Question.
Restated : " How would you like to "F" up your Life more? "
If you are less than 30 years old, and are STILL thinking this is a career/"profession" you might want to commit to ... You need to sit back and start using the God Given Brain and/or Talents you already possess.
This is NOT 1948-78.
This a POST REGULATORY MARKET that is nothing other than a deteriorating series of Labor/Management agressions, faltering markets, declining prices and products, and ( basically ) a free for all "Race-To-The Bottom" ....of a VERY Deep Hole, of which we have not seen the bottom just YET.
Seriously, I have had a great ride and wouldn't change a thing. This is not Sour Grapes. This is not 30 years ago, when Airline jobs were something to ASPIRE to.
I would ask that you all give caution to your thoughts as to the above question.
For the young Men who seek to proceed down the Airline path at this time ( And, it pains me to say it ) you should seriously consider another direction.
The above ponderings USE to hold much validity and honor..."Gee, I hope I can get hired at American, or Delta, or Continental, or Pan Am ..."
Now, it holds the same value as saying.... " Gee, I hope I can get hired with McDonalds, Burger King, Waffle House, or Denny's..."
If you are already in this....You hang on and do the best you can.
If you want to join The Club...Well, here's my advice to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqnoULgD30
YKMKR
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UnstableAviator
Dual Given.
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Whine Lover, its not 1948-78 in any industry. I'm 32, and its not like my friends in other careers are on easy street either. Its a different country, in some ways with much less opportunity than that which my parents (age 60) experienced. Hell, they paid off their very nice house in less than 20 years, working as a farmer and a bank teller/secretary. That ain't gonna happen in in the years 2011+ my friends...
Full of LUV
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Whine,
Take a look around, almost any profession is under pressure. The days of going to work 5 days a month and making enough to buy a cadillac have passed, but you have to do something. Support FEDEX, UPS, heck even SWA as they have at least placed a stake in the ground for the other pilot groups to rally around. SWA is arguably the highest paying 737 operator in the world, and still makes a profit, granted they work a lot harder than your grandpa pilot had to, and they don't have a pension, and pay for their own retirement medical..... But that is the way the culture is going in America, it's time for the boomers to retire and for thier kids and grandkids to pay UP!
Heck, I made about 140,000 more than my Delta 777 bud last year....
Turned 4 weeks vacation into almost 4 continuous months off.....
My retirement with 401k, profit sharing, stock options worth well over 2.8 mill....
And I won't lose a nickel if SWA goes under unlike the Pension boys.....
And I still have a little over 10 years to go......
So yeah, Full Of SH$T.....we are suffering over here....Big Time.......
Turned 4 weeks vacation into almost 4 continuous months off.....
My retirement with 401k, profit sharing, stock options worth well over 2.8 mill....
And I won't lose a nickel if SWA goes under unlike the Pension boys.....
And I still have a little over 10 years to go......
So yeah, Full Of SH$T.....we are suffering over here....Big Time.......
Whine Lover
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- Jun 19, 2005
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Sacha...You iilustrate my point fairly well.
You and I are already here, basically in a fairly good place. Not as it used to be, nor as it had been hoped for... but nevertheless, not too shabby.
However, guys our age didn't have to fork over 50-60k just to get our ratings so that we could make 17k a year at the commuters and stagnate for 8-10 years and then start over at a National/LCC/Major or whatever and stagnate for another 10-15 years.
There was movement and progression and commensurate pay.
Now...50k in debt to perhaps never make it out of the commuters, and then what....10-15 years of F/O pay?
We also had the luxury of applying to 10-15 large airlines that paid very well....What are we down to at this point? 5-6? ( and dwindling as we speak with consolidation and what not...)
So, unfortunately, I say again: " If you ain't already "here", you might want to rethink your options.
Start your own business, go into sales, learn to tap dance, buy a weapon and a ski mask....?
Good Luck to us all.
YKW
You and I are already here, basically in a fairly good place. Not as it used to be, nor as it had been hoped for... but nevertheless, not too shabby.
However, guys our age didn't have to fork over 50-60k just to get our ratings so that we could make 17k a year at the commuters and stagnate for 8-10 years and then start over at a National/LCC/Major or whatever and stagnate for another 10-15 years.
There was movement and progression and commensurate pay.
Now...50k in debt to perhaps never make it out of the commuters, and then what....10-15 years of F/O pay?
We also had the luxury of applying to 10-15 large airlines that paid very well....What are we down to at this point? 5-6? ( and dwindling as we speak with consolidation and what not...)
So, unfortunately, I say again: " If you ain't already "here", you might want to rethink your options.
Start your own business, go into sales, learn to tap dance, buy a weapon and a ski mask....?
Good Luck to us all.
YKW
satpak77
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time capsule back to 1983
in 1983, where would you go? Who's going to be hiring first?
It is 1981 and I am a Metroliner captain with a fresh Kit Darby subscription
Darby has projected my net worth at retirement to be 25 million dollars when I retire from a "solid" carrier such as Pan Am or Braniff.
and in ten years/1993, will you make captain and be assigned to international routes ?
both are strong, major, international carriers and I look forward to a long future as a senior airline captain flying heavies to Europe and working 4 days a month, surrounded by nubile young sex hungry stews
in 1983, where would you go? Who's going to be hiring first?
It is 1981 and I am a Metroliner captain with a fresh Kit Darby subscription
Darby has projected my net worth at retirement to be 25 million dollars when I retire from a "solid" carrier such as Pan Am or Braniff.
and in ten years/1993, will you make captain and be assigned to international routes ?
both are strong, major, international carriers and I look forward to a long future as a senior airline captain flying heavies to Europe and working 4 days a month, surrounded by nubile young sex hungry stews
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whatitdoing?
Are you awake? Good
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FWIW, I think you'll see all CAL new hire openings taken by UAL furloughees for the next 12+ months. I don't expect to see any UAL recalls for the next year.
Full of LUV
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Sacha,
Your bragging makes the point. You got yours, congrats on being an old fart that paid for his type rating early enough, and it paid off nicely. You took a big risk. You went to an airline with no retirement health care, no pensions, and limited network at a time most shunned them and it has paid off nicely.
All of the bragging and posturing though still won't make you young, good looking or finally have a tool you can be proud of, sorry.
The SWA ship may have sailed though for a young one, time will tell. Just as the time to buy Microsoft stock was in the early '80s, maybe the best play now is to get on with a less mature airline and hope they have a mgmt that navigate into a successful airline. SWA has had the best mgmt as far as that is concerned, but past performance doesn't necessarily guarantee future results.
Best of luck though and I hope your third wife doesn't leave as well, one can only deal with so much personal shortcomings, despite the size of your wallet.
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