AA or Delta?

[WayBack]

Anderson Running an airline? what a joke....EAL,CAL NWA history will repeat itself. Wait during you contract time and talk to us about Anderson..

Anderson was the guy to pull them out of BK, not the guy to run them in the future.
I agree with your contract talk as well, especially with Lee Moak as ALPO President....he loves them RJ's!

 

[Whine Lover]

" AA or Delta? "


The Question is a "Trick" Question.

Restated : " How would you like to "F" up your Life more? "

If you are less than 30 years old, and are STILL thinking this is a career/"profession" you might want to commit to ... You need to sit back and start using the God Given Brain and/or Talents you already possess.

This is NOT 1948-78.

This a POST REGULATORY MARKET that is nothing other than a deteriorating series of Labor/Management agressions, faltering markets, declining prices and products, and ( basically ) a free for all "Race-To-The Bottom" ....of a VERY Deep Hole, of which we have not seen the bottom just YET.

Seriously, I have had a great ride and wouldn't change a thing. This is not Sour Grapes. This is not 30 years ago, when Airline jobs were something to ASPIRE to.

I would ask that you all give caution to your thoughts as to the above question.

For the young Men who seek to proceed down the Airline path at this time ( And, it pains me to say it ) you should seriously consider another direction.

The above ponderings USE to hold much validity and honor..."Gee, I hope I can get hired at American, or Delta, or Continental, or Pan Am ..."

Now, it holds the same value as saying.... " Gee, I hope I can get hired with McDonalds, Burger King, Waffle House, or Denny's..."

If you are already in this....You hang on and do the best you can.

If you want to join The Club...Well, here's my advice to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqnoULgD30


YKMKR

 

[UnstableAviator]

Whine Lover, its not 1948-78 in any industry. I'm 32, and its not like my friends in other careers are on easy street either. Its a different country, in some ways with much less opportunity than that which my parents (age 60) experienced. Hell, they paid off their very nice house in less than 20 years, working as a farmer and a bank teller/secretary. That ain't gonna happen in in the years 2011+ my friends...

 

[Full of LUV]

" AA or Delta? "


The Question is a "Trick" Question.

Restated : " How would you like to "F" up your Life more? "

If you are less than 30 years old, and are STILL thinking this is a career/"profession" you might want to commit to ... You need to sit back and start using the God Given Brain and/or Talents you already possess.

This is NOT 1948-78.

This a POST REGULATORY MARKET that is nothing other than a deteriorating series of Labor/Management agressions, faltering markets, declining prices and products, and ( basically ) a free for all "Race-To-The Bottom" ....of a VERY Deep Hole, of which we have not seen the bottom just YET.

Seriously, I have had a great ride and wouldn't change a thing. This is not Sour Grapes. This is not 30 years ago, when Airline jobs were something to ASPIRE to.

I would ask that you all give caution to your thoughts as to the above question.

For the young Men who seek to proceed down the Airline path at this time ( And, it pains me to say it ) you should seriously consider another direction.

The above ponderings USE to hold much validity and honor..."Gee, I hope I can get hired at American, or Delta, or Continental, or Pan Am ..."

Now, it holds the same value as saying.... " Gee, I hope I can get hired with McDonalds, Burger King, Waffle House, or Denny's..."

If you are already in this....You hang on and do the best you can.

If you want to join The Club...Well, here's my advice to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqnoULgD30


YKMKR

Whine,
Take a look around, almost any profession is under pressure. The days of going to work 5 days a month and making enough to buy a cadillac have passed, but you have to do something. Support FEDEX, UPS, heck even SWA as they have at least placed a stake in the ground for the other pilot groups to rally around. SWA is arguably the highest paying 737 operator in the world, and still makes a profit, granted they work a lot harder than your grandpa pilot had to, and they don't have a pension, and pay for their own retirement medical..... But that is the way the culture is going in America, it's time for the boomers to retire and for thier kids and grandkids to pay UP!

 

[Sacha]

Heck, I made about 140,000 more than my Delta 777 bud last year....

Turned 4 weeks vacation into almost 4 continuous months off.....

My retirement with 401k, profit sharing, stock options worth well over 2.8 mill....
And I won't lose a nickel if SWA goes under unlike the Pension boys.....

And I still have a little over 10 years to go......

So yeah, Full Of SH$T.....we are suffering over here....Big Time.......

 

[Whine Lover]

Sacha...You iilustrate my point fairly well.

You and I are already here, basically in a fairly good place. Not as it used to be, nor as it had been hoped for... but nevertheless, not too shabby.

However, guys our age didn't have to fork over 50-60k just to get our ratings so that we could make 17k a year at the commuters and stagnate for 8-10 years and then start over at a National/LCC/Major or whatever and stagnate for another 10-15 years.

There was movement and progression and commensurate pay.

Now...50k in debt to perhaps never make it out of the commuters, and then what....10-15 years of F/O pay?

We also had the luxury of applying to 10-15 large airlines that paid very well....What are we down to at this point? 5-6? ( and dwindling as we speak with consolidation and what not...)

So, unfortunately, I say again: " If you ain't already "here", you might want to rethink your options.

Start your own business, go into sales, learn to tap dance, buy a weapon and a ski mask....?



Good Luck to us all.

YKW

 

[satpak77]

time capsule back to 1983

in 1983, where would you go? Who's going to be hiring first?

It is 1981 and I am a Metroliner captain with a fresh Kit Darby subscription

Darby has projected my net worth at retirement to be 25 million dollars when I retire from a "solid" carrier such as Pan Am or Braniff.

and in ten years/1993, will you make captain and be assigned to international routes ?

both are strong, major, international carriers and I look forward to a long future as a senior airline captain flying heavies to Europe and working 4 days a month, surrounded by nubile young sex hungry stews

 

[whatitdoing?]

I'd avoid United for now.

 

[Andy]

I'd avoid United for now.

FWIW, I think you'll see all CAL new hire openings taken by UAL furloughees for the next 12+ months. I don't expect to see any UAL recalls for the next year.

 

[Full of LUV]

Heck, I made about 140,000 more than my Delta 777 bud last year....

Turned 4 weeks vacation into almost 4 continuous months off.....

My retirement with 401k, profit sharing, stock options worth well over 2.8 mill....
And I won't lose a nickel if SWA goes under unlike the Pension boys.....

And I still have a little over 10 years to go......

So yeah, Full Of SH$T.....we are suffering over here....Big Time.......

Sacha,
Your bragging makes the point. You got yours, congrats on being an old fart that paid for his type rating early enough, and it paid off nicely. You took a big risk. You went to an airline with no retirement health care, no pensions, and limited network at a time most shunned them and it has paid off nicely.
All of the bragging and posturing though still won't make you young, good looking or finally have a tool you can be proud of, sorry.

The SWA ship may have sailed though for a young one, time will tell. Just as the time to buy Microsoft stock was in the early '80s, maybe the best play now is to get on with a less mature airline and hope they have a mgmt that navigate into a successful airline. SWA has had the best mgmt as far as that is concerned, but past performance doesn't necessarily guarantee future results.

Best of luck though and I hope your third wife doesn't leave as well, one can only deal with so much personal shortcomings, despite the size of your wallet.

 

[whatitdoing?]

FWIW, I think you'll see all CAL new hire openings taken by UAL furloughees for the next 12+ months. I don't expect to see any UAL recalls for the next year.

Sort of the joke I was getting at. BTW, happy to see you guys over here. Wish it was under better circumstances, but nonetheless.

 

[Andy]

Sort of the joke I was getting at. BTW, happy to see you guys over here. Wish it was under better circumstances, but nonetheless.

Most of us are just happy to see some light at the end of the tunnel. We're just hoping that it's not another train; I've been run over by them twice now.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Great post Whine Lover. Not sure what your story is, but there needs to be more of a voice to the young people about the realities of an airline career. Although had someone explained it to me, I'd have still thought I'd end up the lucky one. Now that I'm older, I'm not so sure. I'd say in todays world, if you're not at a major by 35 your odds of having a boat load of regret are high.

 

[AlbieF15]

Lots of blackness here. I'm not sure what career you want to scare the wannabes into, but from where I sit most jobs are tough these days. It comes down to what makes you happy. If you have to make 300k to be happy, odds are you won't see it (in todays dollars) for a lot of years. However, if you enjoy the travel, enjoy not having to report daily to a boss, enjoy the challenge of the flying itself..well...maybe there is still enough in this profession to make you happy.

I think anyone who expects a company to care for them cradle to grave is going to have a miserable career. However, if you love to fly, the airlines can offer some chances to see the country/world and still have enough time off to enjoy the other passions in your life. I think Delta/UAL 2011 may not look like Delta/UAL 1999/2000, but compared to other jobs available out there they still look solid in their own right.

The perfect combo is either a military ANG/Reserve job or a solid second career in your own speciality that allows you to ride the down cycles in the industry while still enjoying what you do and reaping the potential rewards of the up cycles.

And in 2020....somebody is going to see somebody somewhere. Somebody is going to be shipping some goods overseas. That means someone is going to have to do the flying. If you know this is what you want to do, then you can ride out the storms and be the guy that does it. I got hired in 2002...right after the horrible events of 9/11. It was exactly the wrong time to get out of the active duty. And yet...10 years later I look back and I"m glad I went for it. My buddies at DAL who were furloughed are all back, with decent seniority, and although its not 2000 anymore their prospects look good. The AA guys are about to finally start moving up. Its been a tough decade for some, but things are moving again in the right direction. Giving up now doesn't make sense, because it seems to me we are on the crest of a lot of growth, contract improvements, and good things across the industry. It won't be perfect, and progress won't be linear, but I like the trend...