Rumor has it that LOA 93 Arbitrator Has Ruled

[charlie2]

NY und du?

I took German in college a long long time ago but I think you are saying something else...DOH (the Homer DOH not date of hire)? Are you saying I'm mistaken or not understanding?

 

[Sandhawk]

No, you implied it.

NY und du?

Yep, I agree with you. It's sad that us union pilot's only recourse is to wait years for a decision on a disagreement with management on something as unimportant as our pay.

If I'm not comprehending you than I'm the obtuse one not you! So what do you think of my suggestion?

The multi-quote function works wonders....you should try it sometime.

Just sayin!

 

[charlie2]

Is that the "multi off" button?

 

[charlie2]

Is that the "multi off" button?

The multi-quote function works wonders....you should try it sometime.

Just sayin!

I personally hope the East gets everything they asked for. The reality is this East West struggle affects a small portion of the big puzzle. All of us benifit every time a pilot group makes more money, especially those of us in negotiations.

It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.

I never said I was smart!!!!!

 

[charlie2]

Why is USAPA negotiating for a contract and payrates less then the "snapback" if there so sure of the win? Good luck, win or lose... we win.

Fair question. I think it was a mistake but maybe the NAC was thinking big picture here. The LOA 93 dispute is about pay and only pay. A contract has many sections that if improved can be as or even more important than pay rates. I would give up a few dollars in the rates section for more vacation, sick, 401k etc...

 

[TWA Dude]

If I'm not comprehending you than I'm the obtuse one not you!

I'd love to see you in front of Judge Judy. She'd have much less patience for you than I.

So what do you think of my suggestion?

Nope. It'll take more than an arbitration loss to get through. A ruling from Judge Silver will have to come first.

 

[charlie2]

I'd love to see you in front of Judge Judy. She'd have much less patience for you than I.Nope. It'll take more than an arbitration loss to get through. A ruling from Judge Silver will have to come first.

Thankyou for your patience. I guess what I'm asking you is this. If somehow the west pilots were waiting for a decisiion that could increase your pay rates substantially would you care more or less about our seniority list?

 

[TWA Dude]

I got furloughed from TWA when the APA saw fit to staple two-thirds of us. A crappy seniority number can lead to a 100% pay cut. I'm entitled (yes, I said entitled) to my Nicolau seniority number and the East is stealing that from me. So the answer to your question is I'd care more about the seniority.

 

[charlie2]

I got furloughed from TWA when the APA saw fit to staple two-thirds of us. A crappy seniority number can lead to a 100% pay cut. I'm entitled (yes, I said entitled) to my Nicolau seniority number and the East is stealing that from me. So the answer to your question is I'd care more about the seniority.

Ya that sucks. I think you more than most westies understand the 2000 easties absolute repulsion to the nic award which staples us at the bottom. Please understand that this statement is not questioning your entitlements under binding arbitration, we can still have a fight in us on the way to the executioner. Just try and understand that being stapled would keep so many of us furloughed for so much longer while your two month probationary guys got to feed their families. I think nic backed us into a corner and the result was a fight for life. But I do think you will end up an A330 captain for 25 years and I will retire as an 737 FO...congrats you definitely win this time.

 

[TWA Dude]

...congrats you definitely win this time.

If you could guarantee that outcome I'd happily tell the Leonidas guys to give it all up. I'll let you know if I've really "won" in about 22 years. Not before then and certainly no time soon.

 

[xanderman]

The requested executive session took place about 2 weeks ago and Kasher sent correspondence shortly thereafter notifying the two parties that his written decision would be out within 30 days... So do the math and we can expect to know his answer sometime before the middle of this month. That is the latest...

 

[Bringupthebird]

Ya that sucks. I think you more than most westies understand the 2000 easties absolute repulsion to the nic award which staples us at the bottom. Please understand that this statement is not questioning your entitlements under binding arbitration, we can still have a fight in us on the way to the executioner. Just try and understand that being stapled would keep so many of us furloughed for so much longer while your two month probationary guys got to feed their families. I think nic backed us into a corner and the result was a fight for life. But I do think you will end up an A330 captain for 25 years and I will retire as an 737 FO...congrats you definitely win this time.

Absolute BS! East got top 517 PLUS 2/3rds of all upgrades, but that's not enough. You feel entitled to 3/3rds.

The west is not being placed on an east list. East and West are being blended into one list that was crafted by a neutral 3rd party.

 

[charlie2]

Absolute BS! East got top 517 PLUS 2/3rds of all upgrades, but that's not enough. You feel entitled to 3/3rds.

The west is not being placed on an east list. East and West are being blended into one list that was crafted by a neutral 3rd party.

You mean the 517 pilots who are retiring now...er thanks for that.

 

[charlie2]

If you could guarantee that outcome I'd happily tell the Leonidas guys to give it all up. I'll let you know if I've really "won" in about 22 years. Not before then and certainly no time soon.

I would bet my salary that you westies will win this.

 

[charlie2]

The requested executive session took place about 2 weeks ago and Kasher sent correspondence shortly thereafter notifying the two parties that his written decision would be out within 30 days... So do the math and we can expect to know his answer sometime before the middle of this month. That is the latest...

you mean he is going to do his job...wow...he's going to do his job...wow...tuff job and he's going to do it ...wow...I hope he retires soon cause it sounds to me like it is way to arduous of a job for her...I mean what ever gender the arbitrator is. Yay Yay RLA!!!!! It's good for and good for me.

 

[charlie2]

If you could guarantee that outcome I'd happily tell the Leonidas guys to give it all up. I'll let you know if I've really "won" in about 22 years. Not before then and certainly no time soon.

I'll be dead by then and my grandchildren will do something more with their lives then flying **************************************** to wallyworld....you won.

 

[xanderman]

Stop yer bitchin charlie2. Thats the info. The guy had some kind of medical issue and then YOUR onion asked for an executive session. That takes time. Maybe you easties should start to realize that you have been your own worst enemy but maybe that's asking too much for such shallow, small-minded folk like you.

 

[eaglesview]

Absolute BS! East got top 517 PLUS 2/3rds of all upgrades, but that's not enough. You feel entitled to 3/3rds.

The west is not being placed on an east list. East and West are being blended into one list that was crafted by a neutral 3rd party.

Didn't that go away when age 65 came along??

 

[Bringupthebird]

The 2/3 ratio stands and the east has no one to blame but themselves if laws change over the course of their delay. They've had a 6 year fence, paid for by the west.

 

[TWA Dude]

I would bet my salary that you westies will win this.

Not enough. Not by a mile.

 

[TWA Dude]

Didn't that go away when age 65 came along??

The only thing that went away with age 65 was the five-year A330 fence.

 

[Guppiedriver]

I agree. That about sums it up.

M

Has hell (PHX) frozen over?

I personally hope the East gets everything they asked for. The reality is this East West struggle affects a small portion of the big puzzle. All of us benifit every time a pilot group makes more money, especially those of us in negotiations.

It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.

I hope they do too, but they won't. A LOA 93 victory could never undo all of the damage that uSAPa has inflicted on the piloting profession.

uSAPa won't take that stance and the company would just laugh anyway.

You really don't have a clue about what has gone on between the east and west in the last six years, do you?

 

[Bringupthebird]

It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.

Why would you think the east would put any effort towards that? They chose to ignore the west's right to section 6 negotiations on their contract.

The core of the DFR is that USAPA has chosen to take the west's money, but also chosen to ignore their representational responsibilities to the west.

 

[Hpilot]

I can guarantee USAPA will take that stance and maybe the company will start complying with the law and start negotiating in good faith. Continuously repeating "Kirby proposal" is not negotiating.

Continuously repeating, "DOH" is not negotiating either. You guys are the biggest hypocrites.

 

[cactusboy53]

Ya that sucks. I think you more than most westies understand the 2000 easties absolute repulsion to the nic award which staples us at the bottom. Please understand that this statement is not questioning your entitlements under binding arbitration, we can still have a fight in us on the way to the executioner. Just try and understand that being stapled would keep so many of us furloughed for so much longer while your two month probationary guys got to feed their families. I think nic backed us into a corner and the result was a fight for life. But I do think you will end up an A330 captain for 25 years and I will retire as an 737 FO...congrats you definitely win this time.

Chaz;
I get it too. I am disappointed that the east pilot group has chosen the path to not abide by the final & binding arbitration. I do however understand that you feel you have somehow lost a great deal in the arbitration.

I have asked the following before: While we disagree, would you not agree that it is inappropriate for the West pilots to fund the East legal proceedings as they pertain to the seniority issue. Why not allow the West pilot group to place 2/3 to 3/4 of our union dues in trust. These funds to not be touched until the seniority issue has a definitive legal end (other than the one provided by Arbitrator Nicolau)? The needed funds for the East's legal battles could come from assessments to the East pilots alone (much like the assessments for the Retirement investigation).

That sounds quite reasonable to me. What say you?

CB

 

[PCL_128]

If it is so obvious to everybody why did the arbitrator take so long? I guess it wasn't obvious to him was it.

Arbitrators know how they're going to rule as soon as the hearing is over (sometimes before). They go through the motions of accepting post-hearing briefs and pretending to deliberate because they want to make it look like they're going through an in-depth process to make everyone feel better. In reality, they are all very experienced, and they can tell which side is BSing them pretty quick. Taking a lot of time doesn't mean that he's thinking about it. It means something else.

Kasher absolutely "Kashtrated" the Alaska Pilot group several years ago. Something like a 35% paycut for some. Alaska is a financially stable carrier to boot. For the life of me, I can't understand why ANY union would pick Kasher after that. The SOB should be banned for life.

Kasher has always been a good arbitrator. The problem in the Alaska case was that their contract specifically directed him to base his decision on the pay rates that other major airlines have on similar equipment. With everyone else having taken concessions, his hands were pretty much tied.

 

[charlie2]

Chaz;
I get it too. I am disappointed that the east pilot group has chosen the path to not abide by the final & binding arbitration. I do however understand that you feel you have somehow lost a great deal in the arbitration.

I have asked the following before: While we disagree, would you not agree that it is inappropriate for the West pilots to fund the East legal proceedings as they pertain to the seniority issue. Why not allow the West pilot group to place 2/3 to 3/4 of our union dues in trust. These funds to not be touched until the seniority issue has a definitive legal end (other than the one provided by Arbitrator Nicolau)? The needed funds for the East's legal battles could come from assessments to the East pilots alone (much like the assessments for the Retirement investigation).

That sounds quite reasonable to me. What say you?

CB

I would agree to it.

 

[charlie2]

Arbitrators know how they're going to rule as soon as the hearing is over (sometimes before). They go through the motions of accepting post-hearing briefs and pretending to deliberate because they want to make it look like they're going through an in-depth process to make everyone feel better. In reality, they are all very experienced, and they can tell which side is BSing them pretty quick. Taking a lot of time doesn't mean that he's thinking about it. It means something else.

.

I agree with this but my contention (I could be wrong) is that if we found out a month or two after final briefs that we lost (June 2010 I believe) things might be very differant here so I think his delay tactics are screwing all of us east and west. Any thoughts on the "something else"?

 

[PCL_128]

I agree with this but my contention (I could be wrong) is that if we found out a month or two after final briefs that we lost (June 2010 I believe) things might be very differant here so I think his delay tactics are screwing all of us east and west. Any thoughts on the "something else"?

Yes, I think the "something else" is that he knows that he's ruling against USAPA, and based on USAPA's past behavior, he expects them to react horribly to the news. If I was Kasher, I would be worried that a ruling against USAPA would result in (more) illegal job actions. Better to just sit on the ruling than to allow that. With the injunction now out, and USAPA at serious risk of a fine that would completely bankrupt them if they pull anymore illegal nonsense, he may feel better issuing his ruling.

 

[charlie2]

Yes, I think the "something else" is that he knows that he's ruling against USAPA, and based on USAPA's past behavior, he expects them to react horribly to the news. If I was Kasher, I would be worried that a ruling against USAPA would result in (more) illegal job actions. Better to just sit on the ruling than to allow that. With the injunction now out, and USAPA at serious risk of a fine that would completely bankrupt them if they pull anymore illegal nonsense, he may feel better issuing his ruling.

Interesting hypothesis but I still think he should have made and issued the award more than a year ago way before this years slow down.