Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan Reallignment

[Flyer1015]

Be careful what you wish for line holders at Colgan are looking at 9 to 12 days off all the way up to number one on our list, Thanks Mesaba Crew Planners. That is why you will see mass exit from colgan into the jet side of the house.

I will gladly trade in my 19 day off 75-hour worthless SIC line for a Captain PIC line with 11 days off (should be 11 now with new contract).

 

[Grinder10]

I will gladly trade in my 19 day off 75-hour worthless SIC line for a Captain PIC line with 11 days off (should be 11 now with new contract).

I would also love one of those lines after I get displaced from my 200 CA slot just before I reach my 1000 hrs.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Be careful what you wish for line holders at Colgan are looking at 9 to 12 days off all the way up to number one on our list, Thanks Mesaba Crew Planners. That is why you will see mass exit from colgan into the jet side of the house.

Check the July and August '07 Colgan lines for the 1900, I think you'll find a number of similarities. Sounds like the top guys have more days off in your case though.

 

[Yodafly]

To be fair, I personally agree that the saab captain positions should have been treated the same as the other airframes with quotas.

I also think the Q400 Captain pay should have been between crj900 and crj200 pay.
Not less then the 200. That would keep the Colgan people from wanting to switch airplanes. We helped cause this shift that is about to happen with the next round of vacencies due to paying less on the Q400.

Its going to be a while before people end up in the plane and base that they want to stay in. More people will be displaced. Boston being rumered to close at CJC will also cause a large shift in pilots. Its going to be a bumpy ride till the majors start hiring.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Great, let't just quit farting around and file the bankruptcy papers now so we can get all this b.s. out of the way.

 

[Flyer1015]

To be fair, I personally agree that the saab captain positions should have been treated the same as the other airframes with quotas.

9E believes that was the original intent. A Mesaba rep will tell you that Pinnacle is prohibited from holding Saab Captain for 5 years.

 

[dcfu69]

Colgan WILL close the BOS base by end of the year. PDT is already taking over one of the routes. Looks like more displacements....bummer

 

[Motown]

I also think the Q400 Captain pay should have been between crj900 and crj200 pay.
Not less then the 200. That would keep the Colgan people from wanting to switch airplanes. We helped cause this shift that is about to happen with the next round of vacencies due to paying less on the Q400.
Its going to be a while before people end up in the plane and base that they want to stay in. More people will be displaced.

There's something to be said for a single pay rate for all airplanes (like UPS), or a pay rate for what your seniority can hold regardless of what you actually fly (somebody does this-- Horizon maybe?). It sure would prevent people from bidding for aircraft; pilots would just bid for base & schedule.

 

[suupah]

Colgan WILL close the BOS base by end of the year. PDT is already taking over one of the routes. Looks like more displacements....bummer

what i don't understand is why piedmont can run those routes fee for departure of cjc can only get them pro rate. i'm pretty sure we can run them cheaper and as reliably as piedmont so what gives?

 

[altimaklr]

Piedmont is owned by US Air so it doesn't really matter

 

[Grinder10]

Does anyone know how "phantom" positions figure into the protected CA seats? I just looked at the October bid packs and there are 540 CA senior to me on the bid list. Overall, 629 are senior to me if you include those on the "no bid list." Am I protected by being in the top 541 9E CA's or am I still 88 spots away?

 

[Flyer1015]

With everyone screaming the end of RJ-200s for Pinnacle in 2017, why is there nothing but cricket chirping for Mesaba's reductions, and now the Colgan reductions? Guess where they will displace to? And guess who will continue getting downgraded?

 

[MCDU]

With everyone screaming the end of RJ-200s for Pinnacle in 2017, why is there nothing but cricket chirping for Mesaba's reductions, and now the Colgan reductions? Guess where they will displace to? And guess who will continue getting downgraded?

Your are seeing the results the Usair East pilots would have seen if the Nicolau award would have been used. Throwing out ALPA and being separate has saved many capt. jobs.for long time East pilots. East Capt. are flying with West pilots who are now furloughed that were placed ahead of them on the Nic award.

M

 

[CptMurf]

With everyone screaming the end of RJ-200s for Pinnacle in 2017, why is there nothing but cricket chirping for Mesaba's reductions, and now the Colgan reductions? Guess where they will displace to? And guess who will continue getting downgraded?

Okay, I'll bite....

I guess they will displace to wherever their seniority can hold. And those most junior will end up displaced. It's called seniority, the whole industry is set up on it.

 

[WTF-Over]

With everyone screaming the end of RJ-200s for Pinnacle in 2017, why is there nothing but cricket chirping for Mesaba's reductions, and now the Colgan reductions? Guess where they will displace to? And guess who will continue getting downgraded?

You really need to direct your anger towards 9e managment for buying XJ, we didn't want to be purchased any more then you wanted to own us.

 

[higney85]

You really need to direct your anger towards 9e managment for buying XJ, we didn't want to be purchased any more then you wanted to own us.

Are you saying that 9E bought XJ? I say this not as a knock, but until now the argument was always that PNCL Corp bought XJ. When Colgan was purchased the same argument came up, and the arbitrator agreed, but didn't force a "remedy" since we weren't "competing carriers". The view of "who bought what" has always been smoke and mirrors. XJ guys know how this worked with MAIR in their shamruptcy. In the end, I do find it ironic that the 9E guys had the brakes applied in progression and now are being jolted when all of these mergers stemmed from 9E's NWA payment of $220ishM that financed the birth of "Corp Holdings" which bought Colgan and financed/bought many Q's. Colgan didn't even turn profitable until a few months prior to Corp's XJ purchase. We may be splitting hairs, but those hairs are the few left on the heads of 9E pilots. It can be argued in many ways, depending on viewpoint, but we can't change where we are. I still cannot figure out why the 9E merger committee did not contest the quotas after the award. Having those adjusted for the actual CA seats on the list could have made this far more palatable for 9E, while still allowing significant protections and advancement for all of us here as PNCL pilots.

 

[CptMurf]

Are you saying that 9E bought XJ? I say this not as a knock, but until now the argument was always that PNCL Corp bought XJ. When Colgan was purchased the same argument came up, and the arbitrator agreed, but didn't force a "remedy" since we weren't "competing carriers". The view of "who bought what" has always been smoke and mirrors. XJ guys know how this worked with MAIR in their shamruptcy. In the end, I do find it ironic that the 9E guys had the brakes applied in progression and now are being jolted when all of these mergers stemmed from 9E's NWA payment of $220ishM that financed the birth of "Corp Holdings" which bought Colgan and financed/bought many Q's. Colgan didn't even turn profitable until a few months prior to Corp's XJ purchase. We may be splitting hairs, but those hairs are the few left on the heads of 9E pilots. It can be argued in many ways, depending on viewpoint, but we can't change where we are. I still cannot figure out why the 9E merger committee did not contest the quotas after the award. Having those adjusted for the actual CA seats on the list could have made this far more palatable for 9E, while still allowing significant protections and advancement for all of us here as PNCL pilots.

PNCL Corp bought Mesaba, as well as Colgan. Those facts should never be questioned. We've all been put on this roller coaster by them, no one else. XJ did not ask to be bought or sold by NWA, DAL, or PNCL. 9L did not asked to be bought by PNCL Corp. And 9E did not ask to compete with other airlines under their own corporate umbrella, nor did they have the scope to stop it, such as BigSky/MAIR. We have all been thrust into this situation together. It would have been better to chart our own future, by negotiating our own integration. But there were some that did not want that responsibility, and would rather it go to arbitration. All the groups have lost in integration, paid for by individuals on each list, but not equally across those lists. It will sort out over time. But for now, it is what it is. Don't take it out on your fellow pilots.

 

[Flyer1015]

I still cannot figure out why the 9E merger committee did not contest the quotas after the award. Having those adjusted for the actual CA seats on the list could have made this far more palatable for 9E

Busy flying the line, that's usually what the union email updates say!

 

[Flyer1015]

Okay, I'll bite....

I guess they will displace to wherever their seniority can hold. And those most junior will end up displaced. It's called seniority, the whole industry is set up on it.

Seniority went quite out of order on this Bloch's list with his groups! There are 2008 DOH Colgan pilots who are currently at 14xx on the seniority list. These people will take jet Captain positions far before any 2005, 2006, or 2007 Pinnacle FO. How's that for an equitable merger? The displacements are hurting Pinnacle most because our staffing ratios were low, and our Captain positions are protected to very low numbers. We are far above our CRJ quotas, so all of our junior Captains are downgrade material. This is not their fault, it is not my fault. Bloch should have accounted for this in his award. He thought he was being smart and covering all bases. But this has come to hurt us most. Now, as flying is cut, you will have Mesaba and Saab pilots continue taking RJ Captain spots that are in Pinnacle bases, while downgrading our pilots. And some of these Colgan pilots, soon, will be 2007 and 2008 guys getting jets over Pinnacle guys from 2005-2007.

"Seniority" is fair when it's DOH and accounting for longevity. Anything else throws senioity out the window.

Not to mention, quotas and fences also throw seniority out the window, because then seniority doesn't matter, it's the quota and the fence that counts. That is why Pinnacle Captains are being downgraded and given the middle finger "**** you" while Colgan pilots are getting upgraded on the Saabs that are 500+ numbers junior to our displaced Captains.

How's that fair? Fine, displace us and take our Captain spots, but at least let us have some dibs on the Saab Captain seats in exchange. Everyone "gained" in this merger. Mesaba can bid Saabs, Qs, and jets. Colgan can bid all aircraft, props to jets. But Pinnacle can ONLY bid Qs and jets? Why not the Saab? Our displacements would hurt less if our guys could at least take the left seat of a Colgan Saab.

But we are denied even that! There's nothing fair in any of this. On the seniority list, you will have Mesaba and Colgan pilots being awarded Captain positions, you will see our guys continue being downgraded and displaced, and Saab Captain positions will go super-junior to the all the junior Colgan guys.

I can't think of another "f*** you" to Pinnacle, short of just stapling us to the bottom of the combined Mesaba/Colgan list.

 

[RJLoser]

Yeah. You were pretty far from the facts murph.