Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan Reallignment

[Flyprdu]

Oh and you might want to include everone who is not senior enough to hold a 900 position or Q400 position in 5 years as all the crj200's will be parked or farmed out to the lowest bidder.

Enough with the 2017 talk. I've heard enough. It's speculative.

But you know what's real? Your Saabs going away. And you know what else? 10 Pinnacle downgrades with more to come on behalf of Mesaba's failed business model.

So please, zip it. If you get downgraded in 2017, you have every right to come yell at me. Until then, shut your mouth.

 

[Flyer1015]

xjhawk,

flyprdu has a good point. Your '99 or '01 to '03 hires may have not had the best seniority integration, but look at the current picture. Forget what will happen or could happen in 2017. The current picture for ALL those Mesaba guys is that as the Saabs are parked, each and every single one of them is pretty much guaranteed a RJ jet captain spot. Some may get the base they want, others maybe not. But as far as seat goes, they are getting the left one. Pay is therefore right up there for them as with other Captains. The only thing the seniority thing will affect them in todays world is a schedule. But come on, who's gonna complain about a schedule considering your standalone Mesaba reality was downgrades and furloughs? Your '01 Mesaba hires have not been screwed. They will each be able to hold a RJ Captain spot as the Saabs are parked. They will not get a paycut, they stay in the left seat. Now compare that to our guys. We've just had 10 Captains get downgraded. That's back to the right seat, 45% cut in pay (minimum) and a majority displaced out of their base. That is a real hosing right there, not the '01 hires.

 

[bri5150]

That's back to the right seat, 45% cut in pay (minimum) and a majority displaced out of their base. That is a real hosing right there, not the '01 hires.

How could they not hold the base they wanted if they got downgraded? They should be pretty senior FO's if they were just captains. Anyways, this is really starting to get old. I am sorry your company bought another that was losing airplanes. Now we all feel the pain. If you think it's going to be 7 years to upgrade, then go somewhere else where you think it will be less than 7 years. Oh, it may be speculation at this point, but make no mistake...we will be feeling major pain in 2017 when the 200 ASA and our contract is up at the same time.

edit: replace we in the last sentence with Pinnacle. I hope to god I am not here in 2017.

 

[bri5150]

Ipads were put on ice...

Yup. Pretty dumb. The whole point was to save the printing costs. Now will pay for printing and probably never get a good situational awareness tool in the cockpit.

 

[Flyer1015]

How could they not hold the base they wanted if they got downgraded? They should be pretty senior FO's if they were just captains.

Ok, they must have had another base at a higher rank FO. Or maybe they didn't put their FO bids in properly because they were under the impression the implementation of this would not displace any pilot out of their current seat. The 9E side of things is still awaiting a union response to the many questions pilots have fielded.

Anyways, this is really starting to get old. I am sorry your company bought another that was losing airplanes. Now we all feel the pain.

No one's more sorrier than I am, and I called it if you check my previous post history regarding this topic.

If you think it's going to be 7 years to upgrade, then go somewhere else where you think it will be less than 7 years. Oh, it may be speculation at this point, but make no mistake...we will be feeling major pain in 2017 when the 200 ASA and our contract is up at the same time.

And for that reason alone, I plan on being out of here by 2017.

edit: replace we in the last sentence with Pinnacle. I hope to god I am not here in 2017.

Good, we think alike on some things.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yup. Pretty dumb. The whole point was to save the printing costs. Now will pay for printing and probably never get a good situational awareness tool in the cockpit.

Where's the memo on the IPads being on ice? Last memo I got was a glossy 4-pager describing in great detail the different phases of implementation.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Where's the memo on the IPads being on ice? Last memo I got was a glossy 4-pager describing in great detail the different phases of implementation.

It's not on ice. disregard any rumor on that one.

 

[CptMurf]

But you know what's real? Your Saabs going away. And you know what else? 10 Pinnacle downgrades with more to come on behalf of Mesaba's failed business model.

You know the sad part... The reason your quotas are off (and subsequent downgrades) is you companies pre merger business model. And the reason you enjoyed a significant raise is due to Mesaba's model. So in a since, you traded one for another. Then you blame XJ for your problems. nice.

 

[Kaman]

All this sniping amongst one another isn't going to solve anything, nor is the company or the union. The only thing that is going to make this company viable in the industry is what we do everyday as point-of-the-spear employees. Generate revenue. The sooner you realize that you have little control of the events that have driven the company to the state it is in, the sooner you will have some sense of peace. When it comes right down to it. The threads that have discussed our plight since the sale of Colgan and Mesaba have not really suggested a single rational solution to any of our current problems.

 

[Raskal]

All this sniping amongst one another isn't going to solve anything, nor is the company or the union. The only thing that is going to make this company viable in the industry is what we do everyday as point-of-the-spear employees. Generate revenue. The sooner you realize that you have little control of the events that have driven the company to the state it is in, the sooner you will have some sense of peace. When it comes right down to it. The threads that have discussed our plight since the sale of Colgan and Mesaba have not really suggested a single rational solution to any of our current problems.

I have reported you and your entire post to moderators, FI.com is no place for logic, calm, intelligence or "...single rational solution(s)...". You, sir, are a menace.

 

[Flyprdu]

And the reason you enjoyed a significant raise is due to Mesaba's model. So in a since, you traded one for another. Then you blame XJ for your problems. nice.

Any 4+ year FO is now ineligible to hold Captain when we could have without the merger. I'd call that a pay cut.

Try again.

 

[Kaman]

I have reported you and your entire post to moderators, FI.com is no place for logic, calm, intelligence or "...single rational solution(s)...". You, sir, are a menace.

Thank you for the good lauugh I got out of your response A good sense of humor is as much a necessity as a good cup of coffee to being an airline pilot. However, I find it very distressing at times that I am embarased to admit what I do for a living and to whom I receive my paycheck from.
Most of the public has no idea who Colgan, Mesaba or our reluctant parent company Pinnacle is. Nor do they know the level of training, education, experience and motivation the vast majority of the 3 pilot groups demonstrate everyday and on every flight. Not an easy thing to do...operate on pride in doing the job for a commensurately low level of compensation.
The only way this company is going to suceed is for the pilots to consistently demonstrate competence, leadership, maturity and keeping your wits about you when he pressures external to safe operations can distract you from your duties...
OK, I am oing to climb down off my CRM soapbox and I look forward to seeing many of you in a classroom or cockpit soon!

 

[RJLoser]

Any 4+ year FO is now ineligible to hold Captain when we could have without the merger. I'd call that a pay cut.

Try again.

This....

 

[CptMurf]

Any 4+ year FO is now ineligible to hold Captain when we could have without the merger. I'd call that a pay cut.

Try again.

Considering a line holding FO makes about as much as a straight reserve CA, combined with the substantial raise from previous FO pay, I'll bet you make more at the end of the year as a downgraded FO now then you would have made as an unmerged CA. I would not call that a pay cut.

Will you two (RJLoser included) always be this disgruntled about this merger? It's done... Move on. I'll buy the beer at the puzzle palace on Sept. 12th if that will help. :beer:

 

[ricecake]

Considering a line holding FO makes about as much as a straight reserve CA, combined with the substantial raise from previous FO pay, I'll bet you make more at the end of the year as a downgraded FO now then you would have made as an unmerged CA. I would not call that a pay cut.

Will you two (RJLoser included) always be this disgruntled about this merger? It's done... Move on. I'll buy the beer at the puzzle palace on Sept. 12th if that will help. :beer:

You are neglecting to consider the opportunity cost of the lack of a career progression. Iti is hard to get out when the time comes with no TPIC.

 

[RJLoser]

Considering a line holding FO makes about as much as a straight reserve CA, combined with the substantial raise from previous FO pay, I'll bet you make more at the end of the year as a downgraded FO now then you would have made as an unmerged CA. I would not call that a pay cut.

Will you two (RJLoser included) always be this disgruntled about this merger? It's done... Move on. I'll buy the beer at the puzzle palace on Sept. 12th if that will help. :beer:

Im going through the phases of grief Murph. I'm upset for the FO's who have been here for 4-5 years. I did alright. Just working through the hit pcl took.

 

[CptMurf]

You are neglecting to consider the opportunity cost of the lack of a career progression. Iti is hard to get out when the time comes with no TPIC.

Most of us have a lack of career progression due to 9-11, SARS, Foot and Mouth, BKs at the the majors, Mergers at the majors, the economic downturn, and the rising cost of fuel. You career progression is no more important than any of the rest of ours. 4 years (as the OP posted) is nothing in this industry right now. If Jet Blue or Virgin is a career position for you, apply now. There is no PIC requirement. Otherwise... Get in Line.

 

[CptMurf]

Im going through the phases of grief Murph. I'm upset for the FO's who have been here for 4-5 years. I did alright. Just working through the hit pcl took.

I understand. I'm just looking for a way to redirect your energy away from bashing former XJ/9L pilots, because we are all one now. They're along for this ride just as you are. None of us asked for this, but we can't change it.

Now, how bout that beer :beer:

 

[ricecake]

Most of us have a lack of career progression due to 9-11, SARS, Foot and Mouth, BKs at the the majors, Mergers at the majors, the economic downturn, and the rising cost of fuel. You career progression is no more important than any of the rest of ours. 4 years (as the OP posted) is nothing in this industry right now. If Jet Blue or Virgin is a career position for you, apply now. There is no PIC requirement. Otherwise... Get in Line.

I spent my time in line and I earned the seat that came with it. It should not be taken away by someone at Mesaba with a later DOH.

 

[xjhawk]

Considering a line holding FO makes about as much as a straight reserve CA, combined with the substantial raise from previous FO pay, I'll bet you make more at the end of the year as a downgraded FO now then you would have made as an unmerged CA. I would not call that a pay cut.

Will you two (RJLoser included) always be this disgruntled about this merger? It's done... Move on. I'll buy the beer at the puzzle palace on Sept. 12th if that will help. :beer:

get your head of of your Saab! lol he is an elite future Pinnacle Jet Captain and there is no way a Jet captain makes as much as an FO even at 7-8 year pay. In all serious-your theory worked for JEt FO compared to Saab Captain-but not Jet Captain-