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Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan Reallignment

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DTWFO said:
For someone that doesn't work at Pinnacle anymore, you sure have a lot to say about "your" pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and shut the _____ up!!
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Because I spent 5+ years there and just left recently. In addition, I will make comments as I wish, regardless of your desire for me to be silent. Finally, all though you may not like it, you have no one to blame for this mess but 9E management and 9E pilots. There is no other blame to go around. Mesaba PILOTS did not cause the merger. Mesaba PILOTS did not force Pinnacle pilots to demand more from their merger committee than was ever going to be possible.

You guys did this to yourselves. Sorry you are to stupid or to blind to see REALITY.

Picking fights with Mesaba pilots does NOTHING to solve your problems. And they did not cause your problems. Period.

Enjoy the Sh!t sandwich that YOU created for yourselves.
 
Smarta$$ said:
Stop whining, and arguing with Mesaba pilots about it. What is the point? What are you accomplishing? Its not their fault, regardless of whether they come out ahead or not. They didn't cause anything, so drop the subject. Period.

The merger committee did what the bulk of the Pinnacle pilots were pushing them to do, which was to over-reach. The merger committer had no CONTROL over the situation. Blaming them for a bad outcome is pure ignorance. There was no "magic" lever to create the outcome you desire or think you deserve. So again, drop it. You look like a fool for bringing it up again and again. You also look like a fool for placing blame where it does not lie. Yes, bloch was a complete F#$%^ moron, but it was the fault of our own pilot group for mandating the merger committee over-reach grossly on the integration proposals, which led to bloch being handed the keys to this freight train in the first place.

The blame lies with 9E management and 9E pilots. To argue anything else is narrow and small minded.

Reality is a bitch.
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Smarta$$ said:
Because I spent 5+ years there and just left recently. In addition, I will make comments as I wish, regardless of your desire for me to be silent. Finally, all though you may not like it, you have no one to blame for this mess but 9E management and 9E pilots. There is no other blame to go around. Mesaba PILOTS did not cause the merger. Mesaba PILOTS did not force Pinnacle pilots to demand more from their merger committee than was ever going to be possible.

You guys did this to yourselves. Sorry you are to stupid or to blind to see REALITY.

Picking fights with Mesaba pilots does NOTHING to solve your problems. And they did not cause your problems. Period.

Enjoy the Sh!t sandwich that YOU created for yourselves.
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Two separate individuals are stating that the 9E group instructed and demanded our merger committee to over-reach on the proposals. Funny, I don't ever recall anyone approaching me and asking what my opinion was regarding an integration method. My voice was never heard. For that matter, I don't even know how our 3 pilots were selected for the merger committee. Most of us were kept in the dark. Our committee never released any information as to what it was proposing or what our stance was. The first time we heard anything was when the Colgan union released a final-standing viewpoint summary of all 3 airlines, and only then did our merger committee come out and admit the truth of what they were doing. Needless to say, I was shocked at the final view method submitted (Jet CA, Jet FO, Prop CA, Prop FO, etc), and I would never have approved that method. Every single Pinnacle pilot I spoke with was also shocked at just how bad this proposed method was. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was the fault of our entire pilot group. We were all kept in the dark and told everything was basically classified.
 
MesabaDriver said:
Hes a phantom in dtw. Check the policy manual before your speak, or better yet dont.
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What policy manual are you talking about? The Mesaba MEC policy manual? FWIW, the new MEC will be the Pinnacle MEC, not the Mesaba MEC.
 
Flyer1015 said:
Two separate individuals are stating that the 9E group instructed and demanded our merger committee to over-reach on the proposals. Funny, I don't ever recall anyone approaching me and asking what my opinion was regarding an integration method. My voice was never heard. For that matter, I don't even know how our 3 pilots were selected for the merger committee. Most of us were kept in the dark. Our committee never released any information as to what it was proposing or what our stance was. The first time we heard anything was when the Colgan union released a final-standing viewpoint summary of all 3 airlines, and only then did our merger committee come out and admit the truth of what they were doing. Needless to say, I was shocked at the final view method submitted (Jet CA, Jet FO, Prop CA, Prop FO, etc), and I would never have approved that method. Every single Pinnacle pilot I spoke with was also shocked at just how bad this proposed method was. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was the fault of our entire pilot group. We were all kept in the dark and told everything was basically classified.
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The direction the merger committee took was based on line pilot sentiment. The sentiment of the pilots was obtained through speaking to people in crew rooms, in person, on our message board, phone calls to reps, etc... Was there a formal survey to each pilot? No. Of course not. There was also not a survey of MSA and Colgan pilots. If there was a survey at 9E, it would only reinforce the general prevailing sentiment of "we bought them", "they ran their airline into the ground", "we saved them", "3 to 1", "5 to 1", "staple", "use the LOA", and so on. It was an extreme minority that said we should integrate MSA and Colgan with something reasonable like DOH or relative.

The temperature of our pilot group on this subject was well known. We had people like PT in MSP writing legal briefs on how to staple MSA pilots. He posted it with fan fair on our airlink pilots website. ANY ATTEMPT TO DOWNPLAY THIS SENTIMENT WITH THE PINNACLE PILOT GROUP IS AN ATTEMPT TO RE-WRITE HISTORY. As long as I have a keyboard, I will call you out on that.

This over-reach was a direct factor in send this SLI to Bloch. This over-reach was a primary factor in why he found our proposal so dis-tasteful. Make no mistake about it, 9E pilots caused this bad SLI.

That does not mean that ALL 9E pilots were so selfish and ignorant. There were some reasonable pilots, but they were in the extreme minority and were blasted for even suggesting that we play nice. Well, the outcome is now in the history books, and it is perfectly clear that it DID NOT WORK.

So don't pretend for ONE second that most 9E pilots were demanding the upper-hand on any SLI.
 
Hey Smarta$$, did you get a job with JetBlue?? If so I'm happy for ya man. Im hoping they open their hiring window again soon. I would love to get on the first boat outta here, the days of good schedules at 9E are over...
 
MACH-TUCK said:
Hey Smarta$$, did you get a job with JetBlue?? If so I'm happy for ya man. Im hoping they open their hiring window again soon. I would love to get on the first boat outta here, the days of good schedules at 9E are over...
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It's open starting tomorrow, you can follow the other XJ FO's who started class last week. Good luck.
 
Flyer1015 said:
Two separate individuals are stating that the 9E group instructed and demanded our merger committee to over-reach on the proposals. Funny, I don't ever recall anyone approaching me and asking what my opinion was regarding an integration method. My voice was never heard. For that matter, I don't even know how our 3 pilots were selected for the merger committee. Most of us were kept in the dark. Our committee never released any information as to what it was proposing or what our stance was. The first time we heard anything was when the Colgan union released a final-standing viewpoint summary of all 3 airlines, and only then did our merger committee come out and admit the truth of what they were doing. Needless to say, I was shocked at the final view method submitted (Jet CA, Jet FO, Prop CA, Prop FO, etc), and I would never have approved that method. Every single Pinnacle pilot I spoke with was also shocked at just how bad this proposed method was. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was the fault of our entire pilot group. We were all kept in the dark and told everything was basically classified.
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I ran into a couple Pinnacle pilots who actually had the nerve to tell me that they were excited to get our Jets (the FO was practically drooling over the upgrade he was expecting and the captain was excited about the 900 he was going to fly) both said they were expecting Pinnacle to offer us mesaba pilots jobs.......really? It made me super mad-but then I ran into a few more Pinnacle pilots-talked to the ones I knew from before this crap sandwich and guess what? I will go with the 10% rule. In any group you get 10% who are dicks. Oh and then add 5% of the people are idiots. So there you have it 15% of pinnacle/Mesaba pilots are dickhead dumba$$es. let the rest of us just leave it be and if you are smart-leave Pinnacle. (oh if you are the ones who made out like bandits in SLI-Stay and see what happens in 2017
 
I do not agree with the premise that only an "extreme minority" of Pinnacle pilots wanted a reasonable proposal for the combined seniority list. Our ALPA representatives, (as previously stated), never bothered to ask anyone, nor told anyone in the pilot group what our expectations or desires were. They didn't even let us know what they were trying to negotiate for. This is not surprising since our representatives have NEVER cared what any of our pilot group's goals were. They conducted years of Wilson polling and never once disclosed what the results were. I'm pretty confidant they didn't follow any of that guidance either.

To complain about the arbitration is futile. It is what it is. I would say the only "extreme minority" at Pinnacle, are those that are trying to blame Mesaba pilots for our loss. We got screwed, and we have only those that represented us to blame. I'm sure you will see that sentiment after the current election!

I truly don't think our company is prepared for the mass exodus that is coming in the next couple of years. You can only abuse people so much before they finally decide to call it quits.
 
I am not as worried about the abuse as much as I am about the ineptitude to get anything done. If I am abused, at least I have a job. I am truly worried about this place, especially when the 200 ASA is up. This place is as bad as our federal government. They can't even figure out a time to get everyone together to start talking about fixing things. Pick something and fix it already. Throw us a bone. Give us something to show things may move in the right direction. Declining 700's is not the way to do that.
 
its just a rumor - but even if it were true its a smart decision. Any thing that is going to make the company lose money is not good. It sucks that they went to GO jets but better than us sucking more and losing our contract.
 
i fly boxes said:
its just a rumor - but even if it were true its a smart decision. Any thing that is going to make the company lose money is not good. It sucks that they went to GO jets but better than us sucking more and losing our contract.
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I 100% disagree. They may have lost the company money in the short term, but with scoped maxed out, you should be sucking up as much as you can. We now lost out on 60ish upgrades and another 100ish pilots. Not to mention this company needs a serious shot in the arm. I think morale might be lower right now than it was during the Mesaba bankruptcy. Also, it does more than just "suck" they went to Gojets. It now opens the door for more competition under DCI, which means even less planes in the future.
 
i fly boxes said:
its just a rumor - but even if it were true its a smart decision. Any thing that is going to make the company lose money is not good. It sucks that they went to GO jets but better than us sucking more and losing our contract.
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How bout we accept new flying and just not suck at it?
 

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