SWAPA/ALPA negotiate settlement

[Nindiri]

Facts are stubborn things, obadie. Unfortunately, the staple promise is public knowledge now.

But you are right about the dangers of emotion. That's the problem SWAPA faces now, having stirred up the SWA pilot group with promises of large seniority gains at the expense of AT pilots. Honestly, I don't see how SWAPA extricates themselves from this mess of their own creation.

 

[luv2fly]

Nindiri,

You have failed to provide anything. You still claim SWAPA said this or that, but you fail to provide proof. You have not answered any question that doesn't fit into your agenda.

Post the official SWAPA communication that states anything about a staple!

You can't.

 

[Nindiri]

in any organization you're going to have your 2, or 5 or 10%...

Are you saying that SWAPA is truly negotiating in good faith this week? If so, I will accept your word for it, and am glad to hear this good news.

But I disagree with you on posting actual names from private conversations here. A quick and simple edit would have taken care of that problem.

 

[Nindiri]

Nindiri,

You have failed to provide anything. You still claim SWAPA said this or that, but you fail to provide proof. You have not answered any question that doesn't fit into your agenda.

Post the official SWAPA communication that states anything about a staple!

You can't.

What are you babbling about now, luv2fly? You need to get over this fixation and move on. The staple promise, whatever you may feel about it, is done and over with now, and everybody is moving forward.

 

[Empennage]

I think you misunderstand me. I am in no way suggesting that trying to negotiate a staple was unethical or dishonest; if that was what SWAPA wanted to negotiate, that is their right. But I confess that I am surprised that they would openly promise a staple to their pilots and stir them up in support of it, with such a poor chance of actually achieving it. Now, having promised a staple or near-staple and being unable to deliver, they have backed themselves into a corner and have to deal with their own angry pilots who understandably want to know why SWAPA did not deliver on the promise.

I like your post but it's factually incorrect, backwards, dishonest and deflecting. The truth is alpa led their group in expectations of relative seniority. The backstop was arbitration and recent awards based on common carrier awards (apples to apples). The proof is in all talking points on here from not only Airtran pilots, but also Airtran reps and alpa vols.

The feeling off a staple at Swa is deeply rooted in Swa history. Look at previous Swa acquisitions and you will find a 40 history rich in acquisitions. How were these handled and processed? What role did Swapa play in those? That feeling is old school and an individual and rare one. It is not a Swapa idea.

In the end Swapa never set up expectations to their pilots there would be a staple. Never. If you state otherwise it is simply incorrect and you are being dishonest. The proof is out there.

As you know, a union wants to polarize a pilot group to get positive results. Airtran alpa did this to get the strike vote they needed. It sadly does not transfer into sli negotiating. It did help achieve your section 6 gains however. It did so only because the backstop was moved with future earnings and benefits a given, or so thought. Go back to that section 6 vote without the Swa acquisition and there is no way it passes.

Back to the original post... The deal was not a staple. You sir, are all over the board, changing the subject and deflecting. Your issues are a result of the actions of Airtran alpa. Frankly it is what it is.

We can get this done as a team. It will be best for all of us and are futures. What you are doing here is not helping anyone. It is not helping you, it is not helping me and it is not helping anyone reading this.

Please truth and accuracy first.

 

[luv2fly]

Nindiri, what the heck are you talking about. I really think you have lost your mind!

What in the world does your above quote have to do with a private conversation? If it doesn't why would you bring it up publically?

You have lost it!

 

[Empennage]

Nindiri,

You have failed to provide anything. You still claim SWAPA said this or that, but you fail to provide proof. You have not answered any question that doesn't fit into your agenda.

Post the official SWAPA communication that states anything about a staple!

You can't.

Luv,

He is incorrect. It's an attempt to either distract you from proving the obvious or one to discredit you.

There was another campaign however.

 

[luv2fly]

Luv,

He is incorrect. It's an attempt to either distract you from proving the obvious or one to discredit you.

There was another campaign however.

I understand, that is the funny thing!

 

[Nindiri]

As you know, a union wants to polarize a pilot group to get positive results. Airtran alpa did this to get the strike vote they needed. It sadly does not transfer into sli negotiating. It did help achieve your section 6 gains however. It did so only because the backstop was moved with future earnings and benefits a given, or so thought. Go back to that section 6 vote without the Swa acquisition and there is no way it passes.

I don't disagree with you that unions often try to polarize pilot groups to achieve unity and positive results, but to promise an extreme result with little chance of success is a questionable tactic. SC and SWAPA got the short-term excitement and support they wanted, but now they face the long-term task of pacifying a pilot group that wants to know why SWAPA is not able to deliver on the promises. That's why the SWA pilots' message board went crazy when the proposed SLI came out and was only a partial-staple. I don't accuse SWAPA of doing anything unethical by pursuing a staple, but I wonder how they will proceed from here without further angering the radicals in their own pilot group.

 

[Empennage]

I understand, that is the funny thing!

I apolgize for getting invloved but his attempt is egregious. It's the exact opposite and many of us on here have just moved on as there really is no reason to discuss the matter.

The fact, however, he decides to turn it around to make light of the matter is malicious.

 

[Empennage]

I don't disagree with you that unions often try to polarize pilot groups to achieve unity and positive results, but to promise an extreme result with little chance of success is a questionable tactic. SC and SWAPA got the short-term excitement and support they wanted, but now they face the long-term task of pacifying a pilot group that wants to know why SWAPA is not able to deliver on the promises. That's why the SWA pilots' message board went crazy when the proposed SLI came out and was only a partial-staple. I don't accuse SWAPA of doing anything unethical by pursuing a staple, but I wonder how they will proceed from here without further angering the radicals in their own pilot group.

The conclusion you are attempting to formulate and extrapolate is unethical.

 

[Nindiri]

Nindiri, what the heck are you talking about. I really think you have lost your mind!

What in the world does your above quote have to do with a private conversation? If it doesn't why would you bring it up publically?

You have lost it!

Are you illiterate? I wasn't even talking to you. That's why the post was addressed to CaptWidgeon.

 

[Nindiri]

The conclusion you are attempting to formulate and extrapolate is unethical.

Well, there you go again. Instead of discussing a subject rationally, you resort to invective. This tactic seems to be a pattern here with the radical SWA pilots.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Nindiri-

Who the f)ck cares? So what if I think you should be stapled. I don't even think you should come over to our side of the fence. I think you can stay in ATL until all the AAI planes are sold or painted SWA colors and then you can come outside the fence to the SWA bases to where ever it is your AAI seniority allows you to go.

Oh yeah and regarding this:

Some of the SWA pilots posting here this weekend were saying that SWAPA would not negotiate in good faith

Negotiations are over. Your WGAC (we got acquired committee) and MEC got their bite at the apple. You think you have such a great case in arbitration and whatever else the future may hold so shut up and bring it. We'll see who is a RSW pilot after it's all over.

Oh and one more thing. Can't remember if it was you or one of the other AAI twits but the senior dudes are coming out in droves against tranny integration. Guess the hardkore koolies didn't take too kindly to what they perceive as the bait and switch by your MEC and they thought SL9 was a gift that should have been taken.

Letters are coming in to Kelly and Hardage at a rapid rate regarding their opinion of a an ungrateful bunch that just can't seem to stop hitting itself. Why do you think Hardage is attempting to quell the storm? Whose f(cked up idea do you think WON LUV was in the first place?

They expected the pilots to lead the way on integration and if it all went smooth then all the other work groups would fall in line. Guess your MEC guys didn't get the memo. Now, just like sacks fly free, "It's ON!"

 

[laker4284]

I don't think you can find any evidence of SWAPA pushing for a staple. You can, though, find lots of SWAPA's hard head 5 per centers demanding one. SWAPA seems to be taking a lot of heat for NOT advocating a staple, something which is really torqing some of their junior pilots. Despite the rhetoric SWAPA seems to have taken a high road and their BOD is paying a political price for it. At least with some of their group.

 

[GuppyWN]

Don't feed the troll. He will not stop trying to rile you up and he will never provide backup for his statements.

Gup

 

[Empennage]

Well, there you go again. Instead of discussing a subject rationally, you resort to invective. This tactic seems to be a pattern here with the radical SWA pilots.

Incorrect. It is that we expect a higher standard of integrity and morality than you are presenting.

You have moved beyond discussing the matter and I do not wish to be drawn into your assumptions and extrapolations. So let's try to stay focused on the facts and continue to have a constructive debate. There's no reason to infer the items which are in your posts.

Since you are so interested in the matter, look into the expectations the Airtran MEC set up for its pilot group, how it set them up and why it set them up. Then go look at the circumstances surrounding Airtran a year before the Swa acquisition and what occurred afterwards.

A little additionally reading would be the book Nuts, a history on muse air, a history of Morris air and the history of frontier.

You are attempting to draw conclusions which are simply not there. Additionally you are attempting to deflect readers from the real story. So, when you would like to have a rational and pertinent discussion, than we will. Till then, there is no point and no need to waste the effort nor energy.

 

[Nindiri]

Nindiri-

Who the f)ck cares? So what if I think you should be stapled. I don't even think you should come over to our side of the fence. I think you can stay in ATL until all the AAI planes are sold or painted SWA colors and then you can come outside the fence to the SWA bases to where ever it is your AAI seniority allows you to go.

Indeed, this seems to be the prevailing opinion among many of the SWA pilots after SWAPA promised the staple. I'm not sure why so many SWA pilots here are angry with me for making references to the promised staple and the frustration of the radical faction led by SC.

 

[Nindiri]

Don't feed the troll. He will not stop trying to rile you up and he will never provide backup for his statements.

Gup

I'm sorry, Guppy, but you can't expect us to take you serious after you were caught in that lie about the AT merger committee not coming to Dallas. Nothing personal, you know.

 

[BlueBlood]

Didn't Gup say he heard it from a friend of his and then ask the question here for clarification?