Airtran MEC voted no

[scoreboardII]

I understand that 'perception' is everything, but can we grow up a little. It's not that personal guys. Jeez! The ATN MEC voted based on the AGREEMENT in front of them. That's it, nothing else! The vote against the agreement was NOT a referendum on a SW career, person or anything else. Heck, internally your own unions vote against agreements all the time, does that make them anti-SW?

Lets look at it from the acquiring or "hiring" side: you guys are making it a business dealing, fine. This has also been a test of goodwill and faith, your side has failed in both respects.

Sending an ill informed NC to negotiate without knowledge of membership goals waisting everyones time, and allowing a MEC to ride blindly along until the eleventh hour, failing to let the membership decide the merits of the AIP.


These actions alone describe to a "T" the definition of negligence in any contractual business dealing, not even going into the failure of goodwill this harbors.

Time is money at SWA, guess ALPA hasn't figured that out when it takes weeks to do what SWAPA did in a day.

Not one person hasn't seen through the ALPA spin here "let the pilots speak before we let them vote". NOT. MOB rule of the loudest voices in a room is NOT democracy.

If they knew what the pilots wanted, how can an NC become so disonnected from them and a MEC? They can't, this is all turnning into an ALPA game. I wonder how many jobs ALPA kills this time, 1,700?.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Guys, we are all acting like we have more control over this than we do. The people that have control don't consult any of us, just keep that in mind. Also, to start a JS war, now thats just stupid on both sides. Am I pissed? yeah, if I think about it long enough I am. I think my anger right now is toward ALPA for denying the rank and file in Airtran (as well as me), the opportunity to voice my opinion. The FAB 7 as they are called, well those seven ALPA ATN MEC members pretty much told SWA and ATN pilots that we are not good enough to make this decision. The arrogance needed to do that is beyond me, either that or the vocal minority at ATN must have brainwashed them. 7 pilots at ATN made a decision on behalf of 7700 pilots. ALPA you get my middle finger, everyone else, we have no say so chill out. I had a vote and 7 better than me individuals took that away. 7 individuals that don't even work for SWA. YUCK.

 

[canyonblue]

Where is it written by the gods that the SWA pilots have to get anything out of this merger???????????

Fair and equiptable to both sides, that's where. You clowns spout off B/M and A/M every chance you get, how about "what's in it for the SWA pilots"? Your career expectations just went through the roof, what about the SWA pilot? What does he get out of this? You have nothing to offer this pilot group, so you have to purchase your gains with a seniority loss. That is exactly what will happen in arbitration, hopefully even better SWA seniority gains this time.

6000 getting a 10-15% bump at the expense of 1800 getting -25% to -38%.

Again with this stupid reference, I beginning to understand more and more how AAI is so messed up. As another poster pointed out, that example is relative skewed. If we used relative, the SWA pilots would receive an even bigger percentage loss than that. If you use DOH, you guys will still lose relative seniority percentage, so what's your point? Clueless.uke:

 

[PCL_128]

Consider this fact: the only document in this process guaranteeing integration was SL9/LOA.

Wrong.

 

[sooner01]

alot of us here talk about the industy while sumping the tanks on the airplane and trying to remember if we left our knee boards in the sporty's bag.

some of us would like to know the following.

is releative seniority unfair because alot of southwest guys are retiring. are any airtran guys retiring. and is that what airtran is asking for.

what is wrong with date of hire and is that what southwest is offering. to the airtran guys. if you are even with a guy hired the same year as you dont you both still have your seniority.

before you say shut and do your mag check we just wanted to get some insight from you guys that are titans in the industry.

 

[scoreboardII]

Wrong.

False.

CEO's are not required to accept an SLI.

SL9 gave AT an SWAPA the right to have SWA impliment the SL.

With SL9 gone, SL 8 back in force, the CEO has that option.

 

[PCL_128]

sooner, the offer wasn't even close to date of hire.

 

[PCL_128]

False.

CEO's are not required to accept an SLI.

False. We have a Process Agreement signed by all four parties that requires the company to accept and implement the SLI.

 

[scoreboardII]

Double false. PA does not require integration. Remember the "barring economic realites part"?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Wow actually that is not true azz wipe. If Alaska is only going to allow one JS to SWA ,SWA will do the same w/ Alaska. The problem is that the said pilot would not pursue it. It sounds like your the type to deny JS. Shows a lot about your character

Childish.

I don't ride either, and I believe that the Delta guys I know would buy a "DELTA SUCKS" lanyard. I don't know any Alaska guys, are they all Inuit?

Racist.

Wow. You knuckleheads are really starting to show your true "canyon" blue colors.

You smurfs must really be scared of arbitration.

 

[fam62c]

I find it funny that so many are arguing over this now. There may be a fix in the process but it may get arbitrated. I, for one, am at peace right now because it is out of my hands. What I have that many here, on both sides don't, is faith. I have faith that this will work out and my life will continue. I have given this to God.

Now, I live in ATL and have unfortunately had to dodge commuting on AAI because some there have shown me the same level of immaturity as some of them have seen with our group. My commute sucks right now because I don't know what to expect if I show up at an Airtran gate. I will always be polite and keep the politics out of it. Come ride on my plane anytime and I'll make sure you are treated right. When I smile it's because I'm generally a happy person, not because I am smug. If I say welcome to the family, I mean it. Even if I am just non-revving, I always stop by the cockpit because I think they should know I am on board, not to gloat or confront. Just remember that when one of us shows up to beg for a ride don't blame us for this situation. It was not my idea.

Back to lurking, commuting and having faith.

I'm sorry that you have to worry about jumpseating on AT out of ATL. Whatever happens with this process the relationship between individual crews on jumpseats, at airports, on hotel vans, etc. should remain professional. As pilots we all have a lot more in common than we have differences. It's sad to see things come to this, I don't think it does any good for individual crews to be debating these issues with pilots from the other company or treating pilots (or any other employees at their own company or the other) differently because of this......what does it solve, how does it help the process? Can't we all act like adults, agree to disagree about some things, and let the negotiations happen at the table? Personally, I would be very disappointed with any co-worker who took out their frustration on an employee from the other company by being anything less than friendly and professional, that's just not helpful in any way.

This is a difficult situation and it's causing anxiety for everyone but we can't let that turn into hostility. This is going to get done one way or another and the ultimate success of the combined company will rest on the ability of all of us to put this behind us and work together in the future. These people are your future fellow employees, let's not forget that.

 

[PCL_128]

Double false. PA does not require integration. Remember the "barring economic realites part"?

Triple false! (see how easy that is )

The PA does require integration. Review Section VI.(a). There is no "barring economic realities" part.

 

[sooner01]

was it worse or better than date of hire. if it was better then maybe airtran should have taken it. (i know its more complicated than that). if it was worse then maybe a southwest guy could explain.

 

[PCL_128]

was it worse or better than date of hire. if it was better then maybe airtran should have taken it. (i know its more complicated than that). if it was worse then maybe a southwest guy could explain.

Far worse. Most AirTran guys lost 3-4 years from date of hire.

 

[bravodude]

False. We have a Process Agreement signed by all four parties that requires the company to accept and implement the SLI.

FALSE, The pilots of SWA will use any and all means to block an arbitrated SLI. Even turning this place into a usair/amwest.

 

[sooner01]

ok. thanks alpa guy. not really sure how that is fair and maybe a southwest guy can explain. but atleast it gives us something to talk about in ground school.

 

[ivauir]

PCL,

At your encouragement, your MEC has rejected the only document that guaranteed integration.

Ask Jack, he'll tell it to you straight.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Far worse. Most AirTran guys lost 3-4 years from date of hire.

It's a matter of perspective... They WERE actually gaining years of SWA senority they don't currently have... Next offer should be a 7 year shift back... If ALPA turns that down then perhaps losing all the years is appropriate. ALPA got greedy and turned down DL777 pay at their longevity to fly a 717. There are many of us that would love to fly a narrowbody at widebody rates... Good luck with this folly!

 

[DougCorp-9]

Now, I live in ATL and have unfortunately had to dodge commuting on AAI because some there have shown me the same level of immaturity as some of them have seen with our group. My commute sucks right now because I don't know what to expect if I show up at an Airtran gate. I will always be polite and keep the politics out of it. Come ride on my plane anytime and I'll make sure you are treated right. When I smile it's because I'm generally a happy person, not because I am smug. If I say welcome to the family, I mean it. Even if I am just non-revving, I always stop by the cockpit because I think they should know I am on board, not to gloat or confront. Just remember that when one of us shows up to beg for a ride don't blame us for this situation. It was not my idea.

Back to lurking, commuting and having faith.

JBall,

I can assure u that you will be quite welcome on my jumpseat. If AnYONE gives you a problem and I find out about it, it WILL be taken care of. Let's be professional folks.

 

[scoreboardII]

AirTran Maintenance Station Realignment
[FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma](August 10, 2011)—The Company informed Maintenance Employees today of the decision to cease AirTran Maintenance operations in Indianapolis and Boston effective June 1, 2012. Based on the demands of the combined Southwest/AirTran network moving forward, it has been determined that Maintenance can support activity in the Northern part of the country through the current operations in Chicago (MDW), Milwaukee (MKE), and Baltimore (BWI). There are currently no plans to close additional AirTran Maintenance locations. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma]As the June 1, 2012, date approaches, Maintenance will work with each of the eight affected AirTran Employees and their Union leaders to find another AirTran location that is right for them. We thank each of these Employees for their ongoing efforts to maintain the Safety of the AirTran fleet, and our Fellow Employees join together in supporting their efforts to stay within AirTran. Relocation within the current Southwest network is not allowable at this time, due to separate unions and collective bargaining agreements. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma]Each of these Employees will need to evaluate what is best for his/her particular circumstance, but the bottom line is that we will take care of them. It’s what we’ve been doing at Southwest for more than 40 years and what we will continue to do throughout the integration with AirTran. As we have said since we announced our acquisition of AirTran, we intend to provide AirTran Employees an opportunity to work for AirTran, and eventually Southwest, even though some of the opportunities may require a change in location or position. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma]Thank you for everything [/FONT]
[/FONT]

Your dreams of keeping it business like are coming true, due to these guys unwillingnes to talk, they are now lucky to be moved over to ramper or lav truck driver. It's just business. This is what happens when you play around the margins.

 

[canyonblue]

sooner, the offer wasn't even close to date of hire.

Nor should it be. In my opinion it should have been more of a seniority gain for SWA pilots. It's not even apples and oranges, more like apples and Slim-Jim's. Oranges are in the same classification as apples, this acquisition is not.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

JBall,
I don't talk SLI with SWA J/Ss. If they ask, I say my MEC speaks for me.
You, and all pilots are welcomed on my J/S anytime.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Where does it say this is a merger?????

Get a F(ckin life.....Hope you all rot

This came from SWA employee via Facebook:

I don't usually post that much but I will now again (and probably may regret it LOL. At ********* and any other SWA person that is hung up on Acquired versus Merger. I asked Gary Kelly about the difference between the two and what his perspective is on it (since he is the tip of the spear and all else follows him). When I say that I Asked him, I mean I Stood not 5 feet away from him and verbally asked him face to face. Gary (your CEO and mine too) said that it is true, we acquired Airtran but we acquired AirTran with the intent to Merge. That meant we entered into and steered this process right into a "Merger". Whether there was any other avenue we could have taken is unclear and I didn't ask because it's completely irrelevant because here we are now being led by our Executive Leadership into a Merger. Whether or not you think that is right or not is equally irrelevant. Your Leadership made a decision and is moving forward. Either accept it or don't, but to argue the matter is to be out of alignment with your employer. Those of us who have welcomed this process with open arms and hearts are not "crack babies" or "punch drunk", we are simply following the Corporate Vision towards our Future. Of Coarse there are two sides, and they both are meeting and going to make decisions. Why would you begrudge the other side for having hopes and opinions?
Tuesday at 5:36pm

 

[ATLplt]

Nor should it be. In my opinion it should have been more of a seniority gain for SWA pilots. It's not even apples and oranges, more like apples and Slim-Jim's. Oranges are in the same classification as apples, this acquisition is not.

And now we get to see if a panel of neutrals share your views on you fruits and us Slim-Jim's .

 

[PCL_128]

It's a matter of perspective... They WERE actually gaining years of SWA senority they don't currently have...

Please, make that argument to the arbitrator.

 

[jball2]

FBC, DC9 and others. Thanks for the reassurance. After the last experience I had, I really began to question whether or not we can work together. I know we can if we remember we are all along for the ride right now. I hold no ill will toward anyone at either airline, I would hope that the same can be said toward me. I'll be back Monday to try again! Thanks for keeping it professional on the line!

 

[canyonblue]

This came from SWA employee via Facebook:


Of Coarse there are two sides.....

You will not gain any ground here by:

1. Quoting Facebook uke:

And

2. An idiot who can't spell "of course".

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

You will not gain any ground here by:

1. Quoting Facebook uke:

And

2. An idiot who can't spell "of course".

So....now your fellow SWA family member is an IDIOT. Is that because he is a ramper or something? Cause he doesn't "pull serious coinage"? You guys...

I hope GK is reading this. They need to divert the culture department's attention from ATL to SWAPA.

 

[sooner01]

captain kiwi. are you saying that date of hire gives them more seniority. one of their guys said it results in a loss of some percentage. now i am confused more. and when you say a loss of all their seniority do you mean they should be stapled. is that still legal after american/twa

 

[waveflyer]

alot of us here talk about the industy while sumping the tanks on the airplane and trying to remember if we left our knee boards in the sporty's bag.

some of us would like to know the following.

is releative seniority unfair because alot of southwest guys are retiring. are any airtran guys retiring. and is that what airtran is asking for.

what is wrong with date of hire and is that what southwest is offering. to the airtran guys. if you are even with a guy hired the same year as you dont you both still have your seniority.

before you say shut and do your mag check we just wanted to get some insight from you guys that are titans in the industry.

Sooner- DOH doesn't recognize that for most of us- it took years longer to get the swa job than the AT job. And that has been the case throughout the history of both airlines. That would be relevant if we were receiving equal gains- throw in our MUCH better contract, schedules, stress free mgmt and going DOH with any amount of equality isn't close to fair.

At the snapshot date, AT stopped hiring in April of 2008. SWA hired through
OCT 2008, hiring an additional 300(?)- DOH would give ATs bottom pilots and 300# seniority cushion for getting hired at the smaller, weaker carrier and then getting bought.

I will NOT attack the skill and dedication of the AT pilots- they sincerely deserve our respect for making the AT operation what it is- but the jobs are not remotely equal- and we argue that the years longer it takes to get the swa job is a valid seniority argument.