Airtran MEC voted no

[Lear70]

Hey I hope someone in Dallas is currently writing the "how to get over SLI agreement". Right now there is too much emotion, once arbitration is over hopefully cooler heads will prevail. I even caught myself yesterday and today being caught up emotionally with this...then I hung out with a two year old all day and that's when it hit me, somehow this will all get fixed and I have bigger fish to fry. Dude don't stress over it, especially since we have no say either way.

Nominated FI post of the month.

That's what I've been trying to say all along... :beer:

 

[Muppets]

Can we all at least agree to get rid of those hideous "one Luv" lanyards now?

 

[SWA/FO]

one could deduce that the aai mec doesn't place much inherent value in a career at SWA, and thus SWA in general.

I believe that this is how it was received at the GO. Or at least a few of my friends have stated so.

:cartman:

 

[Music]

I believe that this is how it was received at the GO. Or at least a few of my friends have stated so.

:cartman:

I understand that 'perception' is everything, but can we grow up a little. It's not that personal guys. Jeez! The ATN MEC voted based on the AGREEMENT in front of them. That's it, nothing else! The vote against the agreement was NOT a referendum on a SW career, person or anything else. Heck, internally your own unions vote against agreements all the time, does that make them anti-SW?

 

[Fubijaakr]

OMG! Where to start in such a target rich environment?

You don't have to believe me, you can call me childish, a bully an a$$ I don't care but I promise you an arbitrated list will never see the light of day because there are a lot of people here that will have no problem contributing our own money to tie this up in the legal system for years to come!

No one has to call you anything, since all those qualities are self-revealed. And do you really want to go down the pickleball path? You want to poison your flight decks until the day the last one of you retires? Guess what? If all this vitriol gets to the public, you'll do more damage to your airline than Mr. Kelly can recover from. Then YOU might just be bought by AA. Consider that for a moment.

I just want to make sure I understand what your saying. You expect the number one pilot at AT to placed next to the number one pilot at SWA?

Relative seniority won't happen just as your proposed staple won't happen.
Here's how it will go down:

1. No bump/no flush
2. Pre-1993 SWA on list
3. Ratio the rest
4. Pay the arbitrator
5. Get over yourselves

Already getting ugly out on the line.

And what do you expect when you try to steal 30% of a person's earned seniority? They should kiss your butt and be thankful? You're kidding, right?

"No matter what the arbitrated result, we're gonna pull a USAir on 'ya and keep it in the courts forever".

Work for you?

Of course it does. Especially if he gets your seniority and your Captain upgrade.

Hate to break the bad news to the SWAPA gang, but it is likely that the arbitrator will place the #1 Airtran pilot at #3 or #4 on the MSL and then continue the ratio on down from there.

That won't happen. See above for arbitrated SLI.

Bears repeating...

Hope for American..? Out of touch aren't we..? At this point I'm just happy to sit back and watch the show.

Way out of touch. Pass the popcorn.

Dude, you are Wal-Mart...you bought K-Mart.

Yep. Just because they make slightly more money than the rest of us, they think their stuff don't stink. Guess what, Smurfs? The entire profession is laughing our tookus off at your greed and arrogance.

Especially the f/os who are on the high horse of "We were grateful to be on the bottom of the seniority list of the best airline in the world." Hate to break it to you, but you fly for a glorified regional in the entry level jet for 3rd world countries. You are just overpaid.

By the way...gear up.

Sorry to break it to you, but you won't be the big fish in the little pond anymore....your airline was purchased if you haven't heard.

Ah, the "hired not acquired" argument. LOL! The arbitrator will love that. You boys should really hang your non-existant hats on that one.

Hate to break it to you, but the arbitrator is not going to give a poop that Southwest's union thinks Southwest is the best airline out there. Most likely it will be relative seniority, with fences provided for differing equipment.

So, in other words, you fully agree with the position and actions of USAPA and the USAir East pilots?

You guys are really full of yourself.

Yes, Yes and they're full of something, but it isn't themselves.

Thanks brother, it took a few minutes of stabbing my hand.

Hey, you should wear that "Delta and Alaska suck" badge the next time you come looking for a jumpseat ride.

The arrogance is SO top-notch!!

They're #1. Or haven't you heard.

Not me Red.....when your boys bust out a stapler "or else"......the BS is floating to the top watching you SWA guys get your panties in a wad....You all knew It was a POS from the day you floated it hoping the AT group would buy the veiled "man behind the holding company" threats and now ya gotta actually prove to an arbitrator that you are so special!!!

Defensive? Having a Midol Moment? you'd never know it by the "rational" threats being tossed out by SWA types.

Watching the SWA f/os pee themselves...Priceless.

 

[slaquer5]

fubar say

Hey, you should wear that "Delta and Alaska suck" badge the next time you come looking for a jumpseat ride.

Funny you should say that. I flew with a new guy not to long ago, he said he has been denied JS on Alaska over 3 times because the captain did not want two pilots sitting in the jump-seat (to crowded)

I told him to talk to the JS coordinator but he did not want to cause waves. Its nice to see that Alaska loves to ride on our JS but has there own made up rules for us on them.

 

[JT12345]

Executive Blog - August 19, 2011
From your SWAPA President, Steve Chase

Fellow pilots-

The AirTran MEC voted 7-1 against sending this agreement out to their membership for a vote.***** Regardless of your thoughts on Side Letter 9, we believe it would have been best for the pilots whose careers are at stake to have a voice in the decision.***** Now that is not likely.

We have seen discussion and received questions regarding whether our next step is mediation or arbitration.***** We’ve stated that if Side Letter 9 was not voted-in, we’d be going to arbitration.***** That was based on a voting timeframe for both memberships that would have taken place during the time that mediation was scheduled.***** With the MEC voting no, rather than either pilot group, the Process Agreement allows for mediation to occur on already scheduled dates.***** We are going to follow the Process Agreement because that’s what we do; we honor our agreements.

While we question what more SWAPA or SWA could give, we are always willing to hear what ALPA has to offer us. We will honor the process but are understandably skeptical of further progress.***** AirTran decided that $2 million extra in career earnings per pilot and a job with the best airline in aviation wasn’t enough for them.***** They want your seniority too.***** That’s not something SWAPA is willing to give them.

We have scheduled meetings to meet with the Company next week, as well as meetings in DC with our legal team.***** AirTran gave Gary a clear message on what they think of Southwest.***** We look forward to sitting down with him next week and relaying your feelings to him face-to-face.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions or appearances of misinformation.***** SWAPA is prepared to fight for your seniority and for you to continue to have the outstanding career value and Culture you have come to expect and enjoy.

Fly Safe,



Steve Chase


This is going to get interesting! Hope this doesn't go down as one of the biggest aviation blunders in HISTORY! I am sure Gary and Herb are a little pissed.

This agreement had nothing to do with SWA pilot seniority.

Only mine and ours at AAI.

6000 getting a 10-15% bump at the expense of 1800 getting -25% to -38%.

Where is it written by the gods that the SWA pilots have to get anything out of this merger???????????

Just worry about losing what you have. Now arbitration might have something to do with SWA seniority, so you guys should participate in mediated talks. Don't be greedy motherfekers. Just because we "could" get more money than what we have now is not at your expense, so why should you get a bump? I just don't get this attitude over there.

SWAPA was not fighting in that agreement for your seniority. Only to take mine away.

_____________________________________

We don't have 18 year FOs here and 6 year Captains, so don't exaggerate these issues. We have 8 year Captains and 10 year FOs, so not coming to an agreement would be foolish for the company's sake. Stop thinking about yourselves and that you have to get something for this.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I told him to talk to the JS coordinator but he did not want to cause waves. Its nice to see that Alaska loves to ride on our JS but has there own made up rules for us on them.

I guess you "forgot" the cockpit jumpseat is issued entirely at the discretion of the CAPTAIN. If he didn't want two, he didn't have to take two. Perhaps your jumpseat coordinator knows more about the "rules" than you do, Junior.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Lumbcrap is back, I guess Little Caesars closes at 11. :laugh:

That was funny Canyon (Seriously)....

But you forgot the old standby "windcheck"

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Hey I hope someone in Dallas is currently writing the "how to get over SLI agreement". Right now there is too much emotion, once arbitration is over hopefully cooler heads will prevail. I even caught myself yesterday and today being caught up emotionally with this...then I hung out with a two year old all day and that's when it hit me, somehow this will all get fixed and I have bigger fish to fry. Dude don't stress over it, especially since we have no say either way.

Best post on this thread.....too true!

 

[scoreboardII]

Only mine and ours at AAI.
.

You guys are coming to a gunfight with a pop-gun sonny.

 

[scoreboardII]

Heck, internally your own unions vote against agreements all the time, does that make them anti-SW?

No, because they are IN SWA at the time.

Nothing like biting the hand that was going to feed you. Good luck with that.

Oh, and every SWA union who ever voted down an agreement, has ended up with less after it was all said and done.

 

[slaquer5]

I guess you "forgot" the cockpit jumpseat is issued entirely at the discretion of the CAPTAIN. If he didn't want two, he didn't have to take two. Perhaps your jumpseat coordinator knows more about the "rules" than you do, Junior.

Wow actually that is not true azz wipe. If Alaska is only going to allow one JS to SWA ,SWA will do the same w/ Alaska. The problem is that the said pilot would not pursue it. It sounds like your the type to deny JS. Shows a lot about your character

 

[Empennage]

This agreement had nothing to do with SWA pilot seniority.

Only mine and ours at AAI.

6000 getting a 10-15% bump at the expense of 1800 getting -25% to -38%.

Where is it written by the gods that the SWA pilots have to get anything out of this merger???????????

Just worry about losing what you have. Now arbitration might have something to do with SWA seniority, so you guys should participate in mediated talks. Don't be greedy motherfekers. Just because we "could" get more money than what we have now is not at your expense, so why should you get a bump? I just don't get this attitude over there.

SWAPA was not fighting in that agreement for your seniority. Only to take mine away.

_____________________________________

We don't have 18 year FOs here and 6 year Captains, so don't exaggerate these issues. We have 8 year Captains and 10 year FOs, so not coming to an agreement would be foolish for the company's sake. Stop thinking about yourselves and that you have to get something for this.

Lets be honest here.

The bump was less than 10-15%. The average loss was less than 30%. Additionally, the numbers are skewed from relative.

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Where is it written by the gods that the SWA pilots have to get anything out of this merger???????????

Where does it say this is a merger?????

Get a F(ckin life.....Hope you all rot

 

[Empennage]

I understand that 'perception' is everything, but can we grow up a little. It's not that personal guys. Jeez! The ATN MEC voted based on the AGREEMENT in front of them. That's it, nothing else! The vote against the agreement was NOT a referendum on a SW career, person or anything else. Heck, internally your own unions vote against agreements all the time, does that make them anti-SW?

Music,

I really have enjoyed your posts and I appreciate your efforts. Unfortunately, it is viewed as personal here and very much so. While I cannot state how it is viewed in the big D, I can tell you how it is viewed on the line. Knowing Southwest pretty well, I can certainly believe that Dallas feels the same way.

Frankly it would have been better if the pilots themselves had voted it down. The MEC represents the pilots and voted based on the opinions of their pilots. So, yes, the pilots have rejected SWA. Additionally, it appears as there is a third party who has interjected themselves into the process and who elects to stand in the way of progress and luv.

Very personal -Extremely.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Wow actually that is not true azz wipe. If Alaska is only going to allow one JS to SWA ,SWA will do the same w/ Alaska. The problem is that the said pilot would not pursue it. It sounds like your the type to deny JS. Shows a lot about your character

Shows a lot about sacha'a character as well since he threatened to deny a jumpseat.

 

[jball2]

I find it funny that so many are arguing over this now. There may be a fix in the process but it may get arbitrated. I, for one, am at peace right now because it is out of my hands. What I have that many here, on both sides don't, is faith. I have faith that this will work out and my life will continue. I have given this to God.

Now, I live in ATL and have unfortunately had to dodge commuting on AAI because some there have shown me the same level of immaturity as some of them have seen with our group. My commute sucks right now because I don't know what to expect if I show up at an Airtran gate. I will always be polite and keep the politics out of it. Come ride on my plane anytime and I'll make sure you are treated right. When I smile it's because I'm generally a happy person, not because I am smug. If I say welcome to the family, I mean it. Even if I am just non-revving, I always stop by the cockpit because I think they should know I am on board, not to gloat or confront. Just remember that when one of us shows up to beg for a ride don't blame us for this situation. It was not my idea.

Back to lurking, commuting and having faith.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Lets be honest here.

The bump was less than 10-15%. The average loss was less than 30%. Additionally, the numbers are skewed from relative.

Agreed. 9% was the highest seniority gain, most got around 6%.

Hey, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good emotional, if not truthful argument, eh JT?

 

[canyonblue]

Hey, you should wear that "Delta and Alaska suck" badge the next time you come looking for a jumpseat ride.

I don't ride either, and I believe that the Delta guys I know would buy a "DELTA SUCKS" lanyard. I don't know any Alaska guys, are they all Inuit?